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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 7:21 pm 
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Horizenjob wrote:
Thanks, that sounds good, so all the options are on the table. Did you just get a manual from Freescale or were you already familiar with this board?

I've been looking at the board and the EK for the MC33810 and others for quite a while. Freescale uses similar setups for a lot of their automotive EK's. The dongle and SPIGEN load a config file that tells it what is what, and SPIGEN lets you control signals.

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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 7:50 pm 
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mk e wrote:
I've had throttle stick dozens of times over the years.


But it is never fun...


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2015 9:02 pm 
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clcorbin wrote:
mk e wrote:
I've had throttle stick dozens of times over the years.


But it is never fun...


That's certainly true....the point being even a bad ETC system is probably less failure prone than a mechanical sytsem.

I got a nice little idle target routine working(in enginelab for now). The user sets the desired idle in a table based on coolant temp and cycle count. Then sets an offset rpm above that you want the ECU to grab the engine and ease it down to the set point from either the rpm offset point or actual rpm, whichever is less. Its a simple proportional ramp down based on cycle count, user sets the decay rate, 5% is shown in the graph which is pretty slow, 20-30% is probably the right setting.

this part should work regardless of how idle is actually controlled....but I'm going to send it to the ETC for now and see how that goes.


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:33 pm 
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I have some more testing to do but I think I have something that will be functional. Once I'm happy it's doing what I think then I'll add additional safeties. The throttle is NEVER in open loop mode.

Flood clear - if flood clear enabled AND TPS > 90% AND engine NOT running, then fuel = 0

Crank Position - engine NOT running and rpm > 1 AND pedal closed, then Throttle to crank position. There is a clt & cycle count enrichment available as well in the fueling setup

Stall Saver - if engine running AND below the stall saver threshold AND TPS < stall saver position, then stall saver position. So this will engage as soon as the engine fires and crosses the run threshold. Enrichment at startup is handled by the cycle count/clt table as with cranking. After the engine is actually running enrichment is handled by the wall-wetting (x-tau like) enrichment.

Normal mode - The throttle follows a table to translate Pedal position to TPS. The user can set any conversion they please...I have a simple curve set in at the moment shown on the graph

Idle - If idle enabled AND throttle close AND RPM above stall saver AND TPS % below idle limiter the throttle is tied to control to the idle target rpm instead of pedal position with the max TPS limited.

There are 2 separate PID controllers, one for position and 1 for RPM because I'm assuming the same values won't work for both.


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:27 pm 
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This all sounds really good, I wish I could look over your shoulder and see this.


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 3:09 am 
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Hi all,
for some comprehensive ETC strategies have a read of http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=The-Bosch-MEMotronic-System-Part-1&A=108379

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Bosch K-Jetronic Injection with FrankenCIS
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 8:28 am 
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Horizenjob wrote:
This all sounds really good, I wish I could look over your shoulder and see this.


You can grab ELConsole here:
http://gemellocattivo.com/forum/viewtop ... f=19&t=150

You can grab the latest version of my model and basic instructions are here:
http://gemellocattivo.com/forum/viewtop ... f=19&t=153

I'm thinking I'll have my engine ready to test about Christmas time....which probably means early Feb but hopefully Christmas time. Once I know the model is about right we can get going converting to o5e. o5e should work the way it is but I think what I have now in enginelab is probably better and more complete.


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:12 am 
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reanimotion wrote:


The torque control strategy seems to be the direction OEMs are going and it makes a lot of sense with turbos and can help with anything that has dips of oddities in the torque curve...but you kind of need to know what the torque curve is then before you can setup the throttle to work properly.

I guess if you have a MAF signal that torque will be pretty proportional to MAF. Most people remove the MAF though on hopped up engines so don't have that info until the engine is fully tuned and can extract it from the VE/lambda info.

I've been having a torque/charge vs standard VE based control conversation recently with a guy from an FSEA team. They are charge based but also turbo'd but I keep not seeing enough advantage to justify the added complexity during tuning.....but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed at times so it could just be that :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:54 am 
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I connected up power from my battery charger and got to see the TBs move last night. Yay!

It's drawing quite a lot of power though, like 10A. I'd heard the BWM system was a but power hungry and I'm asking it to do quite a lot so I probably shouldn't be surprised. The enginelab/AEM hardware uses the freescale chip which is 5A continuous/10A peak but I don't dare connect this to that. The HW has a pair of the chips so that should work but there is no good way I see to sync the PWM so that's a no go I think.

My thought at the moment is just use 4 external solid state relays and have a 20A driver available but also spend a little time seeing how light I can go on the return springs and still have reliable self-return.


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:11 pm 
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mk e wrote:

My thought at the moment is just use 4 external solid state relays and have a 20A driver available.


That was a silly thought. I think I'm going to buy this:
https://www.pololu.com/product/2991

$40 gets me 17A continuous plus basic current sensing and limiting. They have a simple version good to 25A I was thinking about but that much power will fry the actuation anyway I think.


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 Post subject: Re: ETC - Electronic throttle Control (DBW)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:46 pm 
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I got the throttle working pretty well today....at least for basic push the pedal and have the throttle respond. A little over-shoot I can't get rid off without losing pedal response but not bad and it's really snappy as you can see in the step changes on the graph. There is also a little bit of "stair-set_ action but that seems to be friction and I don't thing would be any better with a cable.

One odd thing is that when the throttle is between about 2% and 4% there is an oscillation unless I keep the PWM frequency low, I ending up going down to 1khx which is an annoying pitch but I'm sure the engine will drown it out. At 20khz the oscillation is everywhere.....pololu say that recommend adding a cap to the driver I guess I know why now.

Once the engine is running I'll work on the idle control and stall saver parts....they're written and work in the simulator but I'm sure will need so tune-ups to work the real world.


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