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 Post subject: Ion sensing technology?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Location: Massachusetts, USA
Recently I had a short email conversation with someone that mentioned that the MPC5634 supports this stuff. I had read the paper from Delphi but thought that this stuff is not in production. It turns out this has been used by Harley, Saab and also maybe GM for years. The application in Harley at least means that the coils are fairly available and they cost something like $60. That makes this easy to play with.

Does anyone have an idea how well this stuff is working in the field? Knock detection would be the first thing desired but mixture control and other benefits might be possible. Is this a reasonable goal to try and support in my ECU?

You could potentially build a little board to add this support to 4 wire coils, is this something people would be interested in? I don't know yet how much you could improve on the Harley coils are they good enough for the job.

A first step would be to buy a couple of these coils and start measuring the signal...


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 Post subject: Re: Ion sensing technology?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:12 am 
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Feature creep.

:(

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: Ion sensing technology?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 8:48 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
Feature creep.

:(


Probably :)

The H-D system works pretty well from everything I've heard. I've never worked on it myself but have a buddy who tunes H-Ds for a living and has never said anything bad about the system other than the tuners don't or didn't let you mess with the knock limits.


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 Post subject: Re: Ion sensing technology?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2015 5:57 pm 
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No feature creep, I just feel a need to understand this stuff, I need some perspective on the road ahead.

I did add a half inch to the width of the board, but that was to make it fit in the enclosure that seems to make more sense.

I just got my board past the DFM check at Advanced Circuits, so we are ready to push the button I think. Just a final choice or two about solder, board finish and a final double check of the pictures etc.

This does mean I might add another 8 A/D inputs for the production board... We'll see.

Maybe my question is wether I should buy these style coils for my SBF 302. How do you choose between these coils and the LS style of coil packs? They seem similar cost. These would take fewer mounting screws because they are actually on the plug. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Ion sensing technology?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:31 am 
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Horizenjob wrote:


I just got my board past the DFM check at Advanced Circuits, so we are ready to push the button I think. Just a final choice or two about solder, board finish and a final double check of the pictures etc.


Great news! I know how hard you've been working on it so glad to hear you've gotten it to where you want it!

Horizenjob wrote:
I did add a half inch to the width of the board, but that was to make it fit in the enclosure that seems to make more sense.

This does mean I might add another 8 A/D inputs for the production board... We'll see.


I don't think there is any real need to try to keep the case small for most applications. Motorcycles and ATVs like small, but in a car....it could be 12"x12" and very few people would care.

How many A/D do you currently have? . My enginelab/AEM hardware has 23 and I still bought a CAN expander to add 12 more just in case :) The M150 motec was 24 I think and the base unit for both companies (infinity-6/9h or M130) has 12.

You normally can't go wrong with more I/O and in the 10 to 24 A/D is where most ECUs are...but you do need to stay focused on what application you are targeting the unit to I think. You're not including a ton of outputs and looking to control cost I believe so normally that would mean you'll be at the low end on the inputs too. I'd expect 10-12 and then do a CAN expansion unit for applications needing more....but it's not in any way wrong to have more A/D it's just that most users probably won't need that many.


Horizenjob wrote:
Maybe my question is wether I should buy these style coils for my SBF 302. How do you choose between these coils and the LS style of coil packs? They seem similar cost. These would take fewer mounting screws because they are actually on the plug. :)


LS coils have the igniter built in, I don't think the H-D coils do, so that's really the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Ion sensing technology?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2015 3:33 pm 
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Quote:
Great news! I know how hard you've been working on it so glad to hear you've gotten it to where you want it!


Thanks, it's required a bunch of groveling the last couple of weeks. I need to have a conversation about them on price and also to do the simple work of specifying how to array the board on a panel and then request my bid modulo boards per panel. That's probably 12 or 16 boards on a panel.

Quote:
LS coils have the igniter built in, I don't think the H-D coils do, so that's really the difference.


I mis-spoke, I mean the coils the size and shape of the LS coils without the ignitor. I don't know what to call them.

We have 12 A/D channels now, 2 of those go to the coil driver board so those can be used in the prototype to play with the ion sensing stuff. With the slightly bigger board we can add another 8 or 12 for the next spin.


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