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 Post subject: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:38 pm 
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I intend to use this thread to report hardware (mine anyway) progress. But first a little back ground.

I already manufacture ecu's designed to work with the microsquirt module. We are soon to launch a new ecu again based around the microsquirt mod which I have grown to like. However clearly there is a gap in the market for a more advanced/capable low cost unit.... hence, Rob meets o5e :)

Because we were already planning the release of a new unit and had stared on the design it seemed like a low risk and helpful option to adapt out current design to be a multi platform unit. A low tech essentially driver pcb with some comms and a changeable daughterboard. o5e/microsquirt. Simple yep?

Well, its taken more time than anticipated, its actually a bit of a headache trying to produce something that is compatible with two units, but hey.... progress is being made and this is the place to read about it.

So, this weekend the mechanical blank turned up. This is a blank PCB we had made which double checks all our hole dimensions and main connector footprint. This is also a new case for us, ordering 20 PCB's with the wrong connector footprint would be.... well, upsetting. So we use this method to cover our ass (and wallet).

Im now confident enough to finish the pcb layout and order some boards.

Initially the plan is to supply the main board at a very subsadised price (basically cost) to serious developers, along with a makeshift daughterboard which will allow easy connection of your freescale TRK development boards, this will allow everyone to potentially run an engine and help test/develop some code. Whilst this is happening I will be working on the more complex o5e daughterboard. When thats here I will offer it to developers again at a cost price, along with a case/main connectors, so every one that takes part in the development will end up with a very cheap ecu :)

I don't plan on making any profit from this model, it really is intended as a tool for you guys to help with code, however I do have intentions of releasing a more focused (ie, o5e only) ecu in the future.... when....? I don't know, but I aim to start development with the first stable release of code.

Here are some pics, and if you have any questions then please feel free to ask!

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The unit is picture with the microsquirt module, the o5e DB will be roughly the same size, maybe a little bigger but will have another 25x2 pin header on the opposite edge. We hope to offer both MS and o5e ecu's in the future, possible under different brands, as I firmly believe both offer totally different benefits.

Happy reading

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Very nice looking!

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:02 pm 
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Nice!

If I may ask, what connectors and case are you using? Dimensions of the case?


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:28 am 
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Cheers guys. I'll grab some dimensions for the case later on this evening. It's a little tight space wise but a nice compact unit.


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:59 am 
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Looking good!


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:25 am 
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I asked about how the specs where shaking out and got this update:

"Spec wise:

We have:
8 injectors
4 Logic spark outputs
Tach output (or 2A)
Boost output (2A)
Idle PWM Valve (2A)
Fuel pump out (2A)
Dual H-Bridge (4 outs) for stepper OR I think 1A for each

4 Digital inputs with internal switches to select various configurations
of conditioned analogue inputs (choose upto 4). These are for things like
2nd O2 inputs, Knock etc.

Coolant temp input
MAT input
TPS input
O2 input
External or internal selectable MAP

Onboard USB with access to RS232 on the mainboard for development.

Everything is conditioned to reduce noise and protected. We have split
grounds, a 5v ref for internal and separate for external. Every effort has
been made to ensure this is a noise immune device. Every pin can take battery voltage or GND without damage, the ecu will be safe for a constant 30odd volts input with much higher transients."

I asked a bit more and the 4 2A outputs are high Z injector capable bring the total to 12 fuel for something like staged injection on a 6 cyl and this is on the to-do list for the FW

Also on the FW to-do list is the default setting so all the pins will be the named function....but all the drivers will offer output options. So you could say have 12 fuel or maybe you have a transmission to control that eat the names drivers, then use the 4 stepper driver outs for your fuel pump, idle PWM valve, tach....if you have under 1A loads so an external driver of some kind might be required, but you could do it.

This should be a really nice 4 cycle ecu that also does a good job on 6 and 8 cyl setups. I can't wait!


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 7:11 pm 
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Thanks for adding the spec Mark :D Im rubbish with the whole forum thing!

The spec has changed slightly, for compatibility (and pin count) reasons the H-bridge driver has been dropped. I plan to offer a plug in board for anyone who really wants it over a standard PWM solenoid.

As Mark says the ecu is really targeted at the 4cylinder market but will run 5/6/8 cylinder engines with full sequential fuel with an external ignition module... Thinking about it.... on a 4cylinder engine with external ignition module one could still potentially have 4 outputs for use with an idle stepper motor (the spare 4 injectors outs). The code would need to be there for this to work (so just thinking out loud).

Later ecus will encorporate more functions currently unavailable due to i/o connector pin count, however these will be higher in the product range.

I said the ecu will take battery voltage on all pins, it will actually cope with more, I've tried hard to make this a bullet proof unit rather than a cheap unit.

***NEWS***

The PCB layout is complete (as of Friday), the layout is being checked over by a couple of colleges and will be sent off for quotation after a few small (there are always some!) changes. After quotation it will be circa 1 week before I get the PCB's back.

Ill keep all in the loop.

Happy Monday,

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:32 pm 
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Hi Guys.

Another small but important update. The pcb's have been ordered. I spoke to the company on Friday and they have closed for 10 days. They are a small firm and all take their holidays at once. Anyway, the first 5 will be hand populated to avoid burning a stencil until initial testing in complete anyway.

I have agreed on a rough wiring loom spec with a loom company, I am sub contracting out loom production to people who do it day in day out. It really does take me a long time to make them up!

Im feeling pretty enthusiastic about the whole project now :D

As always, fire away any questions you can think of.

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Great news!

Have you started the adapter for the 5634 board yet?


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:27 pm 
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Yes I have, but there really is nothing on it :(

I have included absolutely everything on the main board. It might be simpler to make up ribbon cables to go from the main PCB to the TRK.

Including all the conditioners etc on the main board and a good chunk of the comms stuff will mean the o5e daughterboard can be far simpler to layout... which is good news for me!

Because of various changes I now believe it will be better for the DEV kit to include the main board, harness and case. What do you think?

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:30 pm 
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Hello chaps,

A very quick update. The ecu main board is done. Two boards have now been built and have been bench tested with MS modules. They are working well. I am off on Saturday to install the ecu into a real life car and do some on car testing. The tach circuit is fairly sensitive so I am worried about noise whilst cranking.

The Crank interface IC has adaptive threshold, the chips internal watchdog goes full gain when a tooth hasn't been seen for a while. This can be a problem with CAM wheels with 1-4 teeth especially when cranking. The main board has two POTs on which will allow the end user to reduce VR sensor signal amplitude essentially defeating the adaptive threshold for a worst case scenario, or we can use the MPC5 to control threshold. Testing will tell.

I will upload as many pics as I can after the weekend.

All the best

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 3:41 pm 
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To me it seems that hall sensors has gained popularity by oem:s specially for cam. Does hall sensors also pose a problem?


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:58 pm 
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glenn wrote:
To me it seems that hall sensors has gained popularity by oem:s specially for cam. Does hall sensors also pose a problem?


I'll take the code part of the question. Most hall sensors just aren't accurate enough to use on the crank and make the FS etpu code happy. The better sensors do work so I wouldn't say "NO hall on the crank".....but VR is a more sure thing

On the cam though it doesn't have to be very accurate so hall would be fine.

I think that's the same answer many OEMs have come to also.


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:25 am 
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You can use either, there are people that use hall for crank but as mark says the VR is more capable when you have a high tooth count. Although I haven't personally tested with Hall on anything more than a 36-1 trigger wheel.

The ecu accepts Hall or VR, for hall there is an internal pull up jumper which needs fitting.

However I don't think there would be an issue when using the hall. As the hall outputs a square wave, the VR chip would just increase gain to max when it didn't see a pulse before its watchdog count, then you might pick up other forms of noise.

Currently with VR and low tooth count (Ie, one tooth on cam) the IC increases gain to max so mechanical defects are also picked up as triggers, its so sensitive that it even triggers on a bolt head near the centre of cam pulley. This has been fixed using a shunt resistor in parallel with an adjustable pot to reduce VR sensor gain. So far even with a low tooth count the VR chip holds it own and triggers properly on the bench, but I'm keen to test this in the real world for obvious reasons.

In future editions when other code stuff has been sorted it is possible to control the MAX chips gain with the main processor but currently the adaptive mode works well for the crank at least.

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:03 am 
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Rob tells me his car is now up and running with the new hw using an MS daughter board which is great news.

The better news is his next mission is a basic 5634 daughter board for development work. This will give use a real ECU to play with and Rob's car is already wired to accept it and all the I/O proven.

Good stuff, thanks Rob!


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:25 am 
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I know I go on and on about my motorcycle, but if we're getting close....

I'll be happy to pile a few stones in the corner with the intent of testing things on my '91 Toyota 2wd pickup. It's also known as HiLux and/or Hi-Lux outside of the USA. It has the 22RE engine and A43D (automatic) transmission.

It's a 4 cylinder engine with batch fired injectors- all 4 injectors fire simultaneously. It's batch fires injectors- all 4 injectors fire together. The wiring harness imposes this- it can fire the injectors in batches of 2.

Might have to wait a bit though- the truck also has two narrow-band O2 sensors, one pre- and one post- cat converter. The latter used to verify the converter is operational... if pre-cat =< post-cat throw an error. That is logic that may need to be incorporated into the O5E firmware, but it is a future thought- have to control things first before you can adjust things.

My wife just told me to go to bed so I don't know if my logic makes sense. We'll work it out soon. :D

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:51 pm 
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mk e wrote:
Rob tells me his car is now up and running with the new hw using an MS daughter board which is great news.



Pics! Come on! This thread needs pics, and more info on the baseboard :-D


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:57 am 
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malcom2073 wrote:
Pics! Come on! This thread needs pics, and more info on the baseboard :-D


Here's some that Rob sent me about a month while we wait for pics of the unit installed which I'm told has happened.


Attachments:
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IMG_1848c.JPG [ 1.67 MiB | Viewed 16441 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:45 pm 
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Rob, what is the plan for your board design - are you going to make them public by any chance?

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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:10 pm 
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Hi there,

Just seen this and haven't been on here for a while. Life is very busy but I have a chunk of time over xmas to continue with design. I was intending to post pictures later of the final unit. We are officially launching the MS based ecu in Jan so expect lots of pics around then.

We have 4 ecu's using the above board running engines in the real world superbly! which I'm incredibly happy about. I was initially concerned about the thermal performance of the PCB however its working very well and none have failed despite the 6+ hours of 8,000 RPM running two ford zetec coil packs on the bench. I have a few editions and changes I will make for batch two but will be collecting data before hand as changes get expensive.

This design will not be in the public domain, I can't begin to explain the hours and money that have gone into R+D and if this is to be financially viable for my company we can't release the designs. However we do fully intend to make up for this by supporting as best we can the open firmware development.

After all, the hardware's easy right, that what I keep reading on the internet anyway :D (tongue in cheek, I don't speak C).

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:17 pm 
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abecedarian wrote:
I know I go on and on about my motorcycle, but if we're getting close....

I'll be happy to pile a few stones in the corner with the intent of testing things on my '91 Toyota 2wd pickup. It's also known as HiLux and/or Hi-Lux outside of the USA. It has the 22RE engine and A43D (automatic) transmission.

It's a 4 cylinder engine with batch fired injectors- all 4 injectors fire simultaneously. It's batch fires injectors- all 4 injectors fire together. The wiring harness imposes this- it can fire the injectors in batches of 2.

Might have to wait a bit though- the truck also has two narrow-band O2 sensors, one pre- and one post- cat converter. The latter used to verify the converter is operational... if pre-cat =< post-cat throw an error. That is logic that may need to be incorporated into the O5E firmware, but it is a future thought- have to control things first before you can adjust things.

My wife just told me to go to bed so I don't know if my logic makes sense. We'll work it out soon. :D


That sounds great, after Xmas I should be in a position to supply testing units to anyone seriously interested in helping with the code. This doesn't just mean code development, in fact real world testing is what this project needs to succeed.

Full specs will be released when I have started the o5e adapter board properly, as the fianal spec will depend on this as much as the main board. There is also an expansion slot intended to support future additions.

Once I have supplied a few units and can see code testing and further development has begun I will start looking at the next ecu up in the range which will have at least double the pins and double the drivers, I intend to continue to support MS, which makes this project viable for me as I can make the above unit for either, however the more complex ecu would be o5e only as ms couldn't support it.


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:27 pm 
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yeah....it's about time to run something :)


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:33 pm 
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RobT wrote:
after Xmas I should be in a position to supply testing units to anyone seriously interested in helping with the code. This doesn't just mean code development, in fact real world testing is what this project needs to succeed.

How can I get on this list? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:58 am 
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russian wrote:
How can I get on this list? :)


It's easy...you just ask :)

Do you just want an I/O board to hook your processor to or an entire o5e system?

I think the plan is that the I/O boards and case will be off the shelf items, its just the 5634 processor board that is a special for this project nd gives you a full 5634 based ecu.

The I/O also accepts an MS microsquirt processor board so a car can be run on MS, swap the board to o5e....if there's any issue go back to MS. There is some talk that a 3rd option could be ARM for your code once the o5e version is up and running.

This is a really flexible system Rob has designed.

Question for you on rusefi.....how many fuel, spark, optional I/O do you think you can handle with your setup?

This first HW is 4 spark, 8fuel and I think 4 optional outs plus an expansion slot not yet defined. Is that where you're thinking you feel comfortable?

...or double that? The 5634 can handle 30 outs (fuel, spark, pwn, gpo doesn't matter which) and 30 ins (analog of digital) pretty easily and I think that is about where Rob is thinking on the next level HW package......is that something you could handle with you processor/code?


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 Post subject: Re: Project ecu.
PostPosted: Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:03 pm 
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mk e wrote:
It's easy...you just ask :)

Do you just want an I/O board to hook your processor to or an entire o5e system?

...

Question for you on rusefi.....how many fuel, spark, optional I/O do you think you can handle with your setup?

This first HW is 4 spark, 8fuel and I think 4 optional outs plus an expansion slot not yet defined. Is that where you're thinking you feel comfortable?

...or double that?...is that something you could handle with you processor/code?


Hope I did not miss any of the questions:

Right now I do not have any o5e compatible hardware so eventually I will need to gather all the pieces I guess in order to start the code on the real vehicle.

We are using software to drive outputs like sparks and fuel, so we should support as many as we have available pins. While we are still using stm32f4discovery board I would guess that would be give or take 40 outputs if we need so many.

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