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 Post subject: Re: Get TunerStudio
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:20 am 
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What kind of plug does this have and pin outs? I might just pigtail two different ECUs so if this doesn't work I can plug in my old Haltech unit. I might have to use a TEC3 as the Haltech is only 4 channels on the injector output.


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 Post subject: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:50 am 
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To help move testing forward I'm taking my lessons learned and re-assembling the FrankenECU (pics to follow)

This is a 5634 TKR board jumper-ed to a MS3x I/O board.

Then
The first time I use 6" jumpers....not long enough for the setup to lay flat on a surface so jumpers would pop off.

Now
I bought a selection of 6" to 24" jumpers. The plan is screw of glue the 2 boards down to a piece of plastic so everything stays put.

I also bought a selection of connector housings that the jumpers will plug into to create custom cables that should be much more robust and there will be no mixing up wires.


Then
The plan was to use the TKRs on-board 12V power input....which was found to be basically non-functional and the only way to power the TKR boars was to stay connected to a PC and use the USB power supply

Now
I bought a proper 5V supply:
http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/2110
I'll mount this to the same plastic sheet as the other 2 boards and have a reliable 5V souce so the car can be driven without fear of the laptop going to sleep and killing the ECUs 5V.


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 Post subject: Re: Get TunerStudio
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 7:57 am 
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p2164 wrote:
What kind of plug does this have and pin outs? I might just pigtail two different ECUs so if this doesn't work I can plug in my old Haltech unit. I might have to use a TEC3 as the Haltech is only 4 channels on the injector output.


This has none as the moment......well the MS3x has a DB-37 computer plug on it.

Could you live with that for now?

Rob's ECU will have a pair of 24 pin connectors when it arrives

I think the 2 ECU idea is a very good one. As much as I don't want to say it out loud the odds of o5e working on the 1st attempt are not very good I don't think.....which is why it's so important to have someone experienced doing the install and troubleshooting...like say you Jack ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2013 1:43 pm 
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I just ordered a second MS3x

I'll use this to allow 8 optional outputs, a couple more input conditioning circuits and provide a second VR adapter


....so I'm using the MS3x boards much like we were talking about a modular development package that never came to be.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 3:04 am 
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mk e wrote:
....so I'm using the MS3x boards much like we were talking about a modular development package that never came to be.

If someone want to take a shot at routing and using both major Arduino footprints...
(yes the board is wider than the TRK board for obvious reasons...)
Attachment:
TRK_Arduino.png
TRK_Arduino.png [ 206.94 KiB | Viewed 18732 times ]
But I'm still figuring out this stuff and saying anything more would be an unfair poke since there is no 'modular development board' topic here.

As Pumbaa said, "You got to put your behind in your past"
Image
Yes, they are real. ;)


What's to be gained from having another MS3x? ... another VR input? ... the ability to run up to 16 cylinders? ... lots of blinking LED's on the bench? :D

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:27 am 
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abecedarian wrote:

What's to be gained from having another MS3x? ... another VR input? ... the ability to run up to 16 cylinders? ... lots of blinking LED's on the bench? :D


The extra VR plus 8 more high power outputs which could let you run a 16 cylinder or maybe a fan, waterpump, boost controller, water injection, etc instead......outputs is outputs you know.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:51 am 
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I'm having a hard time coming up to speed on all this. So your having to build your own boards? Buying components and soldiering them to a project board? Has one of these been made yet?


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:12 am 
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p2164 wrote:
I'm having a hard time coming up to speed on all this. So your having to build your own boards? Buying components and soldiering them to a project board? Has one of these been made yet?



At one time we were talking about a module development setup that would let you plug a selection or things together to make the ecu you needed, different features on different board, just pick out what you need and plug it together.....but this idea just hasn't gotten anywhere useful.

The frankenECU takes a couple off the shelf boards and combines them using jumper wires to make an ecu. So it's the same idea as the modular ecu but done in a less pretty way using lots of plug-on jumper wires. My thought was to try to put one of these together and send it to you so you could get started with some basic testing until the actual dev ECU is ready to go.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 11:35 am 
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p2164 wrote:
I'm having a hard time coming up to speed on all this. So your having to build your own boards? Buying components and soldiering them to a project board? Has one of these been made yet?

As Mark said, there was talk of having a development system available. The "open" in "open5xxxECU" can apply to hardware as well as the firmware.

I think the initial interpretation was it would be a way for people to develop hardware for either personal or commercial use, without requiring a full-board redesign and re-purchase if things didn't work right. However, it quickly sidestepped into an all-in-one adapter board, a bit like the MS3x boards Mark has mentioned. It was never intended to be an ECU proper though some people may have used it in such a manner.

So, before I wander too far off-topic....

I believe what Mark is talking about starting you off with is, as he mentioned, you having the 5634M TRK developer and MS3x expander boards so he can have an actual engine running the firmware to develop against before Rob's ECU is ready. Once Rob's ECU is ready, you'll transition to that and Mark's development will transition as well.

To maybe make it a bit more clear:
- the TRK board is capable of running an engine, but needs external circuitry to do so
- the MS3x board is the external circuitry.

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/me goes off to the corner feeling like Jerry Springer with a mullet.

My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:38 am 
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Not sure if I mentioned this but I am an old electronic tech, owned a company that serviced the largest retailer, I sold that in 97 and retired to FL keys then came back to AR to sober up and get back to being a useful part of society so I started importing granite from Brazil, I also do cnc waterjet cutting and laser engraving for memorials. I built the waterjet and one of my co2 laser engraver, so processing digital information is not new to me but with what your doing I will have to see it to get a picture of what you want me to do. I do have a very nice electronic bench with O scope, dual current and voltage regulated pwr supply good for 80 amps, pulse generator (2 of them) so I will be able to simulate signals if need so.


I would prefer the use these AMP connectors for the main connection part of the ecu to the car it would be very helpful. I will look for the male end (part normally on electromotive ECU) and have not problem creating those connections here in my garage, so if you want to send me a bare wire model ECU with pin outs info thats perfect.


Attachments:
plug and pins.JPG
plug and pins.JPG [ 34.39 KiB | Viewed 18704 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 11:52 am 
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These are the connectors Rob's ECU is using, I believe:
Image

He has mentioned the connectors will come with the ECU.

_________________
/me goes off to the corner feeling like Jerry Springer with a mullet.

My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 6:18 am 
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I ordered the male ends to those plugs I pictured, now I can pig tail to any other type of connector, this will give me the ability to swap back to a different ECU at any time.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:56 am 
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Perfect!


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 7:50 am 
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Jack, any chance you have both the interest and time to do the frankenECU assembly when the parts show up? I've been buried in code and am thinking that's where I should stay focused if possible.


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 Post subject: Re: 5643-TKR FrankenECU
PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:37 am 
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Jack's agreed to pick this up and everything went out to him today.

The schematic for the I/O boards is here:
http://msextra.com/doc/general/ms3v3schems.html#ms3x1


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 Post subject: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 3:43 pm 
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The good hardware is delayed....so the FrankenECU will be returning to the front line.

For those who missed it.

5634 Dev board, qty 1, $99ea
MS3 expander board , qty 2, $105ea (they were $79???)
pololu power supply board, qty 1, $10
Case, qty 1, $20???
wires, assorted, $20

total = $360

The MS3x board were $89, then dropped to $79, now $105 so that's a huge increase....oh well

This gets you
80 header pins
6 AN Inputs
8 switch inputs
2 VR/hall
16 fuel capable drivers (or optional out)
12 medium current optional out drivers
16 TTL ignition outs - or the TTL outs can feed external drivers of any sort (say for DBW or Stepper)
jtag/USB connection (on dev board)

so a VERY capable ECU for $360.

....much more what we've been calling o5e2 HW specs so we'll have to see what the FW actually supports short term.

You could cut 1 MS3x and maybe do a cheap AN board and save $60-$80 I guess or maybe build one of these:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/179 ... _1-top.JPG

but it has way less stuff so you'd probably want 2 plus a jbperf VR adapter.....and then you probably haven't saved any money.


This could be setup to run the pro code too but they'd need a com board I think.

Anyway, I sent the parts off to a buddy, he's sending them back and I'll put it together and see what happens.

Pics when the parts arrive.


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:49 am 
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The box of parts showed up a couple days ago....now the fun begins :)

On the first go I don't think I'll make much effort to package it neatly and just focus on working. Then once it works I'll loop back and see what can be done to package it.

For a few years now I've been trying to talk someone into taking the time to layout an I/O board the we can plug the Dev board onto directly but I haven't had any takers so this will be the next best thing with everything mounted in a case with a custom ribbon cable to connect everything....but first I'll just mount everything to a board and use plug-on jumpers to get to a pinout that makes sense quickly and easily.

...while I'm also working my day job, working on the frankenFerrari and spending time with my family so don't expect me to move a very blistering pace but it should be ready when the FW re-write is ready to test.

This will have a LOT of outputs, more than most people will need. A next step might also be to make a little board with a VR/Hall, some AN inputs and a power supply to replace the second MS3x....but then might as well just do the plug-on I/O board I guess.

I have a jbperf dual VR board somewhere so I could get another and have wheel speed inputs which would be nice, maybe add a stepper driver....lots of possibilities once it's actually working


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:00 pm 
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I'm going to be working on a function plan for the frankenECU.

The list I posted is what a pair of MS3x boards delivers but I don't think anybody need that number of outputs so we'll probably not plan and connecting them all.

It seems short on inputs though. I'd like to have an option to add 4 more VR/hall inputs....dual boards are available from jbperf that we could use.

Maybe add a stepper output option - I'll have to find something for that.

Anybody have something else they'd like to see?


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:51 pm 
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Header for WBo2 module/s.
Flexible analog inputs.
H-bridge driver (throttle) (or header pins for existing board).
High current output for fuel pump control.
Thermocouple conditioning (or header pins for existing board).

There are a lot of interface boards already existing.

Maybe a LIN interface to communicate with alternators/waterpumps/wipers/switch panels etc.
Usually the LIN databases are not known so this is a feature that can not be used anyway..


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:59 am 
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glenn wrote:
Header for WBo2 module/s.
Flexible analog inputs.
H-bridge driver (throttle) (or header pins for existing board).
High current output for fuel pump control.
Thermocouple conditioning (or header pins for existing board).

There are a lot of interface boards already existing.

Maybe a LIN interface to communicate with alternators/waterpumps/wipers/switch panels etc.
Usually the LIN databases are not known so this is a feature that can not be used anyway..


Thanks Glenn.

This path definitely lacks the number of AN inputs. 6 means that after the 4 must haves (TPS, MAP, CLT, IAT) you have 2 left. They could be used for anything but most likely 1 goes to O2 leaving 1...and about 20 AN pins on the processor unused.

I'll have to see if I can hunt up an AN board to add more.

The high power stuff is also something that needs to get hunted down for a good option. It doesn't bother me TOO much that stuff like a fuel pump need an external relay but the PRo setup will need to be able to run a throttle.

Hopefully we can get out of the frankenECU mode quickly but this should be a good place test and maybe lock production HW specs


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:57 pm 
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I've been pondering this think and what makes sense for the FW to try to support and also $ sense.

I'd like to see 8 spark/12 fuel but very few will need that.

The better option might be to use a single MS3x to get
8 TTL spark (.04A)
8 injector out (5A)
6 optional out (3A)
3 AN in
1 crank in (VR/hall)
1 cam (hall to a digital in)
3 digital in

1-6 AN input circuits - use a proto board to make another (they only have 5 parts to copy the MS circuit) with it's own connector.

This gets the price of something that will handle most engines down under $250. I think this will be what I focus on for round 1 ,but the FW will be setup to allow as much of whats on a 2nd MS3x board as possible

Still not exactly sure how to handle the stepper and DBW.....probably pass until there are a couple engines running.


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:01 pm 
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While it is somewhat specific to my car's configuration using a herd PLX Devices modules for MAP, CLT, Oil Press, Fuel Press, EGT and two AFRs, a single MS3x makes sense.

I am planning to insert the ECU into the PLX modules' serial 'daisy chain' so all of those AN inputs come in serially at what I think is a reasonable sample rate. I will also use the PLX OLED display for ECU parameters. That display has a memory function so trends can be 2-D plotted in real time (say AFR against MAP) making it a cool addition to on road testing.

Finally, I'll try a simple additional interface for commands and tuning 'trims' to the ECU through the serial link without a laptop.

While not exactly useable for F1 or a Space Shuttle cockpit emulation, it might just be enough to keep me busy and, as my Wife says, "...off the streets and out of trouble..."!

Paul S


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:31 pm 
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Paul....I thought I had you talked out of all that ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:47 pm 
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mk e wrote:
Still not exactly sure how to handle the stepper and DBW.....probably pass until there are a couple engines running.


Throttle:
http://www.pololu.com/product/1212
Stepper:
http://www.pololu.com/product/2128
Lambda:
http://www.14point7.com/products/slc-oem

And some analog inputs on either a perforated board or if a custom connector board magically materialize..

Does the freescale board have a decent power supply?
If not add that to.

DONE

The other route is the ioextender from jbperf.com


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 Post subject: Re: Franken(stein)ECU
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:10 pm 
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glenn wrote:
Does the freescale board have a decent power supply?
If not add that to.


No - I bought this one:
http://www.pololu.com/product/2110


glenn wrote:
The other route is the ioextender from jbperf.com


There is a LOT on that board....and it's $75 :( I'm thinking most people will want to just prototype something for $% or $10 with the connector.


The stepper/DBW the question was more put in a duel h_bridge and use the processor to do the stepping or throttle control directly which lets the 4 outputs be available for optional or put in a stepper controller with 4 dedicated stepper outputs AND 2 more DBW outputs.

.....is 3A enough for a throttle? I had 5A in my head for some reason?

I'm working through the pinout for an everything ECU and will dedicate 4 emios pins to stepper/DBW so we don't have to decide anything just yet but will need to once it's time to code it.


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