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 Post subject: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:04 pm 
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Jack has volunteered his time and his ferrari 208 turbo for our very 1st install......yes he's a very brave man :)

We're expecting to put a frankenECU on it in the next couple weeks then switch him to a one of Rob's development ECUs when they come available.

I'll post the frackenECU details here as they come available but it will be a 5634 tkr board, 1 or 2 MS3x boards, a power supply, and????


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:12 pm 
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Thanks Mark, I will give it my best and will be very careful with my build, I know the limits from the school of hard knocks. :)

I'm using wasted spark. Coolant temp fan activation, water injection, boost control, and one spare for down the road. TTL logic for 8 high impedance and 4 TTL for ignition, if its possible we can use optical couplers with silicon relays for the high output controls like fans and pumps, I also like to use PWM for fans controlled by temp. If I don't make sense it's because I'm 2 cocktails down and been up since 2 am your time. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 8:54 pm 
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Jack you have:
INPUTS
60-2 chank wheel with VR pickup?
1 tooth cam wheel with VR?

GM coolant temp sensor?
GM Air temp sensor?
GM type 2 bar MAP?

TPS?

OUTPUTS
4 spark logic level (+5V at trigger?, basically no current)
8 high impedance injectors

Then you want
1A for fan relay?
1A for water inject?
1A PWM for boost control?

...can you run without these at least for a little while? This code is not hard but is not written yet. Also should it sounds like I'm going to need to get a second driver board to run them .......or can you cobble something that connects to the 4 spare logic level low power ignition outs?


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:01 pm 
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Mark I can switch back to a VR pickup but have a hall on a 60-2 wheel now, the cam is single tooth with VR pickup. All the rest is correct.

Spark is triggered by negative not positive but I can check my AEM twin fire to see if it will take the pulsed +5 volts. I believe GM uses +5 on there smart coils but most ECU outputs use a falling signal to trigger the ignitor.

I can live without the water injection but would be pretty tough without the GPO to control the fan and boost. I might be able to pig with my old ECU.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:00 pm 
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I can do without the boost as I can tie the internal waste gates direct to the manifold, boost will be limited to 5.5 psi but I can live with that till you come up with a pulse width modulation for that GPO. The radiator fans need to be a simple on and off using the CLT signal. Example on 195 off 185.

The current draw will be in the mA so a big driver is not necessary, all they will do is drive the coil of a relay. If the logic is 5v output we can use silicon relays which will drive anything, I have them as big as 80 amps and are driven from a 3-12v signal. Another approach would be to use optical couplers if they need to be isolated.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 4:27 pm 
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Great news! and welcome along Jack. Hardware wise your wish list is covered. There are two spare high current outputs (7-10A protected) which could be used for a boost control solenoid and perhaps for controlling a solenoid on the water injection kit or maybe even the water injection motor direct...... Give me some details and i'll tell you more :)

Although I don't know how easily the above can be implemented in code....

The fan will have to be from a relay at the moment, or solid state relay...

All the best and look forward to seeing lots of nice pics!

Rob,


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 8:13 pm 
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p2164 wrote:
Mark I can switch back to a VR pickup but have a hall on a 60-2 wheel now, the cam is single tooth with VR pickup. All the rest is correct.

No problem....probably. The hall sensors tend to be a bit less accurate and the cheap ones make the FW angry but generally it should be fine.

p2164 wrote:
Spark is triggered by negative not positive but I can check my AEM twin fire to see if it will take the pulsed +5 volts. I believe GM uses +5 on there smart coils but most ECU outputs use a falling signal to trigger the ignitor.


yes, 5V and the FW can be set to trigger high or low so problem.

p2164 wrote:
I can live without the water injection but would be pretty tough without the GPO to control the fan and boost. I might be able to pig with my old ECU.


If you can handle the driver part then :
a GPO for the fan is very quick and easy.


Boost control I can do....could you live with a table of rpm v MAP with duty cycle in the cells? This would be very easy to give you.

What exactly do you need of a water injection control? Just come on at a specified MAP setting? or MAP and RPM? This would be easy.....or a table of some kind?


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 6:41 am 
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Must have missed the Water injection part. Yes its a simple on off state controlled by MAP. The Haltech unit uses % of TPS and IAT and fuel load to turn on the water injection. I am not fond of this, I prefer just plan MAP to turn it on.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2013 7:03 am 
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I think I'm losing my mind, I saw a question about the plug then when I clicked reply it was gone....

There are 2 things going one.

1) I have parts to put a "bread board" ECU together and I'm planning to do that and send it to you on loan for basic testing. This uses a version of db-37 plug, 2 of them actually, and i have those connectors on order.

2) Rob is very busy making a Development ECU that will let you plug a dev5634 board to it This will use a pair of connectors that he will include with the boards

3) Rob will create a custom processor board to replace the the 5634 dev board and will sent that and a case to let you upgrade a development ecu to an actual ecu, no change to connectors.

We can skip step 1 if you want and wait for the HW from Rob, I just never like actions that are "wait" :)


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:16 am 
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mk e wrote:
I think I'm losing my mind, I saw a question about the plug then when I clicked reply it was gone....

There are 2 things going one.

1) I have parts to put a "bread board" ECU together and I'm planning to do that and send it to you on loan for basic testing. This uses a version of db-37 plug, 2 of them actually, and i have those connectors on order.

2) Rob is very busy making a Development ECU that will let you plug a dev5634 board to it This will use a pair of connectors that he will include with the boards

3) Rob will create a custom processor board to replace the the 5634 dev board and will sent that and a case to let you upgrade a development ecu to an actual ecu, no change to connectors.


We can skip step 1 if you want and wait for the HW from Rob, I just never like actions that are "wait" :)



Soon as I receive the DEV board I ordered I will have a better picture of what we are doing. Yes you did see a post about the plug and I erased it. :lol: The DB 37 plug is what I use on my cnc machines going between the mother board and the controller.

So we are going to use a DB 37 plug from the ECU to the engine? Wires are pretty small. ???


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:21 am 
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p2164 wrote:

So we are going to use a DB 37 plug from the ECU to the engine? Wires are pretty small. ???


Just the frankenECU.....I don't care for DB37 connectors or 22g max (I think) wire that comes with it an automotive environment .....but it's what is on the MS3x board.

I guess the options are use it and splice up to the gauge you need or make a pigtail that adapts to the connectors you have with a short run or the 22g.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2013 7:39 am 
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Jack what are you using for the water injection control?

Load OR RPM OR Air Temp

The fan is just on Coolant Temp?

I'm going to throw in custom functions so you're ready to go while the code gets reworked to allow more generic functions. to work


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 7:54 am 
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The Haltech uses all three, but for simplicity just use map.

No boards yet from anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:31 am 
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p2164 wrote:
The Haltech uses all three, but for simplicity just use map.

No boards yet from anyone.


Too late...I set it up yesterday to use all 3 :)

You should get the stuff from me today I'd think.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 8:45 am 
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Coolant temp control is simple on @ X degree and off @ X degree, pull to ground to control a relay.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 9:53 am 
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p2164 wrote:
Coolant temp control is simple on @ X degree and off @ X degree, pull to ground to control a relay.


That's how I set it up for you.

The only one missing is boost control...but honestly I really like the thought you you being limited to 5.5 psi until everything else is well sorted, then we can add boost control.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2013 2:41 pm 
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I roughed out a setup and base tune for Jack today based on his haltech tune....hopefully I got him close.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:10 am 
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Jack seems to be getting ready to go!


Attachments:
ecu cut out.jpg
ecu cut out.jpg [ 32.05 KiB | Viewed 66395 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:13 pm 
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I hate the thought but we're going to delay this about 3 weeks I think to allow the floating point change to get finished and tested. I just don't see any point in putting any more effort into a FW branch that is effectively dead. This delay will also let Jack better tune the TEC3 so we have more certainty about what the o5e outputs.


.......soon though.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:49 pm 
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2 liter v8? that's crazy :)

What is your plan on the connector - do you have a spare connector for the original harness or is this all custom already?

_________________
another open ecu


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:57 pm 
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russian wrote:
2 liter v8? that's crazy :)

What is your plan on the connector - do you have a spare connector for the original harness or is this all custom already?


jack is a crazy Guy sometimes! He just bought a 3rd 308!

I think he said the harness plan is a pigtail. It is a custom harness (208/308 engines were carb or CIS) but currently setup for an electromotive


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:06 am 
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mk e wrote:
russian wrote:
2 liter v8? that's crazy :)

What is your plan on the connector - do you have a spare connector for the original harness or is this all custom already?


jack is a crazy Guy sometimes! He just bought a 3rd 308!

I think he said the harness plan is a pigtail. It is a custom harness (208/308 engines were carb or CIS) but currently setup for an electromotive

I miss CIS / CIS-E. So easy to tune if you didn't have to mess with the fuel distributor... troubleshoot a crack in an intake boot that only revealed itself when the engine was pegged against the mounts... had an accumulator problem or figure out why your IAC didn't C... and that frequency valve on some of them- a glorified fuel injector it was. ;)


Anyhow, looking forward to some pics and video. ;)

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:52 am 
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Location: Australia :)
Our CIS/K-Jet project brought me here :)

Apologies for the intrusion, I'll post details elsewhere but you might like to read the following.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/911-930-turbo-super-charging-forum/820323-digital-wur-plus-frankencis.html

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Bosch K-Jetronic Injection with FrankenCIS
Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed Sep 17, 2014 3:10 pm 
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Very informative thread there.

You used Microsquirt there, so you weren't really using appropriate hardware for moving to full engine control applicable to more than a half-dozen cylinders. Did it actually support 3 ignition outputs, as would be needed to control 6 in wasted spark?

Anyhow, not sure what else I can contribute, though the idea of bringing CIS into the future is intriguing nonetheless. I can only imagine what Calloway could've done with the A2 Scirocco turbos.

What I can imagine is being able to modulate the fuel pressure directly (H-bridge on the fuel pump perhaps?), so as to affect and thus meter the fuel being delivered- basically eliminating the fuel distributor, and using MAF or TPS/MAP sensors and RPM. Add in coolant temp and intake air temp sensors and the WUR would be gone.

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: 208 Turbo install
PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:26 pm 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KR_5wKZUOc

Anyone, here experience with JTAG programming the MPC5634M 144-pin LGFP.

Thanks


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