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 Post subject: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:05 pm 
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As requested, Here are some pictures of a injector flow bench a friend and I are building.

now, its a work in progress, and not totally finished yet.

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It can do upto 8 injectors at once.

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The tubes are huge, as we intent to test 550lb injectors (yes, you read correct, 550lb / ~5500cc injectors.... or should i say solenoids?)
Also you will see valves at the bottom. we intend to use this in a few different ways.. continual flow, so the tubes never fill up, and a static timed test to see visually the flow rates of all injectors.

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almost looks like a cylinder head :P

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Using RUSefi injector driver board and STM32F4 Dev board

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Rusefi injector driver board.

Since we will be testing with such large injectors, we also have a mechanical pump, which is more than capable of flowing enough fuel volume needed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:32 pm 
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Very cool.

I thought I was out there with my 1000cc/min injectors. What on earth are you building with injectors that big?

Are you planning to do dynamic characterization (time/voltage/flow curves) like injector dynamics or just simple flow measurements?


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:25 pm 
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So, my mate, whom built the hardware side, owns a Twin turbo big block chev supra drag car. It has 8x siemens 2430cc injectors, and 8x morans 5xxxcc injectors.

I on the other hand, have 6x 2000cc injectors, but 90% of my customers run 1000cc injectors (not the modified ID1000 or their copies, but the 100% oem bosch motorsports 1000cc injector)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:40 pm 
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At this point, we'll be using it visually.

But later, i'd like to place some PD flow meters in front of the injectors, and measure how much fuel is being consumed.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:38 pm 
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Very cool!

You can still get manual flow rates by simply running at a pulse width for a fix amount of time, then measuring how much fuel you collected.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:44 pm 
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danieln wrote:
So, my mate, whom built the hardware side, owns a Twin turbo big block chev supra drag car. It has 8x siemens 2430cc injectors, and 8x morans 5xxxcc injectors.

I on the other hand, have 6x 2000cc injectors, but 90% of my customers run 1000cc injectors (not the modified ID1000 or their copies, but the 100% oem bosch motorsports 1000cc injector)


That's a lot of fuel!

What kind of duty cycles are you running?

I'm planning on about 35% and yes using the ID modified injectors......do you know what the cone angle is on the bosch motorsport injectors? The ID injectors is no more than 10 degrees included angle I think. They say that is good with the short DC but I'm thinking I'd still like to try something a little wider.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:07 pm 
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I now use these beauties

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Unlike ID1000's, or other modified injectors. these are the real deal straight out of the bosch motorsport catalog.

Depends on the power level of the vehicle. with 6 of these, operating at a 4.5bar base fuel pressure, and ~30psi boost, i've hit max duty cycle at approx 610rwkw

0280158040 is the part number if yuo wanna search, its a 30degree cone

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c5-forced-induction-nitrous/3168609-finally-a-real-1000cc-injector-bosch-motorsports-1000cc-injectors.html

There's some details about the injector there, including a spray pattern example (just something i quickly googled, no affiliation with that forum what so ever).


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 7:24 am 
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http://youtu.be/AXyZg0DcBEg

Here's a video. Not sure how to embed it

This is what my friend has done so far. His currently running a haltech to control it all.

I still have a lot of work infront of me with the code on the rusefi pcbs I have.

But as you can see with these 2400cc injectors. The variation is visually quite large due to the large tubes. They are within 7% of each other believe it or now.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 5:05 pm 
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danieln wrote:
They are within 7% of each other believe it or now.

Wow. I'll go implement a per-cylinder multiplier :)

_________________
another open ecu


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Ok. we done some testing using the rusefi 12channel driver as pictured above (previous testing was done with a haltech ecu).

With high impedance injectors, it worked well. With low impedance injectors, the injectors gets quite hot during the test.

We understand we need a peak/hold driver for such injectors, but we took into consideration that the short time we would run the injectors for would have been fine. Considering how hot they get for the testing duration, its clearly not suitable.

So for now, we're limiting the use of this driver for high impedance injectors for now. might look at getting the jbperf injector drivers. http://www.jbperf.com/p&h_board/

And FYI, 80% duty with 1500 pulses doesn't even get to half way in the tubes with the 2400cc injectors.. lol


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:44 am 
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danieln wrote:
I now use these beauties




0280158040 is the part number if yuo wanna search, its a 30degree cone.


thanks!

Now I'm really thinking about getting 12..... or 24 or them :o


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:27 pm 
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12, or 24? .. For what application? :D


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:30 pm 
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danieln wrote:
12, or 24? .. For what application? :D


A v12 ferrari of course

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=54
http://www.ferrarilife.com/forums/proje ... n-v12.html


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:56 pm 
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surely 12 of these injectors would give you more then enough fuel..

Heck, 6 of these are good for approx 550rwkw(~730rwhp) in our aussie application..

12 would give you enough fueling for double that.

Oh, thats also based on a 4 bar base fuel pressure (which is the factory reg these vehicles use)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:04 pm 
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insane amount of engineering you've done there...

Pitty your not here in Australia, having someone of these skills would be quite handy to know :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:37 pm 
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danieln wrote:
surely 12 of these injectors would give you more then enough fuel.


Yes, 12 is enough for sure as it's naturally aspirated. 24 lets me put 1 on each valve is all.

I'm going to be running pseudo-direct injection meaning fuel only sprays when the intake is open so 35ish % duty cylce max on the injectors and 12 would just make it if I bump the fuel pressure to 4 bar or a little more I think.

I have the ID1000s fitted and I;m thinking I'll try it as-is before changing anything, but your injectors would have let me do a better job positioning the injectors.


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:46 pm 
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I gotcha, fighting with limited valve open times :)

Given the amount of engineering you've done .... why not look at fitting direct injection! that would be cool ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 7:49 pm 
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danieln wrote:
I gotcha, fighting with limited valve open times :)

Given the amount of engineering you've done .... why not look at fitting direct injection! that would be cool ;)


The plan right now after 7 years of making parts is to actually finish it! I can always add true direct injection later :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:56 pm 
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ahh, one of "those" projects :)


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 Post subject: Re: Fuel Flow bench - Work in progress
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:42 am 
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danieln wrote:
ahh, one of "those" projects :)


Yup, one of those. Hopefully running March 2015.


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