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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:37 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
Only thing I've really heard is that missing teeth should be placed somewhere when nothing is supposed to happen, ......


The logic makes sense.

What occurred to me the other day is load sensing methods all suck for different reasons.

I was planning on MAP because its pretty good at off-idle and the easiest to tune (other than MAF I guess) but the motec just calls load % MAP/101kpa (say as o5e :) ) and that means the load varies with Baro changes. Fuel is always correct for the MAP, but anything tuned different at lighter loads will be effected.

TPS load sensing just says load % = % throttle (like o5e :) ). This means that if you are WOT then you are also using the WOT tuning for mixture, spark, fuel timing, etc so that's good...but TPS position vs air flow is not very linear and varies with rpm so its a bugger to tune and basically every cell int he tuning maps matter making it an even bigger bugger to tune.

Motec used to say they highly recommend TPS load sensing, but the new M150 manual says MAP is preferred....I think they're preferring it because it's easier not better. I'm thinking TPS is the right answer.

abecedarian wrote:
Anyhow, I like the thought you're putting into what you're doing with the engine. Have you given any consideration to how to counteract torque leaning issues once this is installed in my motorcycle's frame? :D


I think that issue is a show stopped ;)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:44 am 
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Engine progress. The timing cover is on, the cams timed and everything seems to work...I think I can officially call this an engine now. :D

It's come a long way fro the heads don't fit on the block, the timing case doesn't fit the heads, and the cams don't match the crank timing.

I should have the cam covers on this week and then on to finishing up the drop gears which should take 2-3 weeks...then the engine goes in the car I think. It's getting close now!


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:57 am 
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So on to the drop gear case which is the last remain item I'd consider major and I have 20 hours planned for it....I think the 1st hour will be burned trying to remember where I left off.

As a re-fresh the V12 is longer than the V8 so the ends both stick out a bit. No real problem on the engine front, but at the flywheel the whole drop gear stuff becomes a mess. Using a hydraulic throw-out bearing and custom flywheel and then a matching shorter clutch shaft I was able to save about 1" but the rest had to come the hard way....cut and weld.

Since I was cutting and welding anyway this was the point I decide it was a good idea to also rotate the the drp gear case to allow the engine to sit about 3" forward and 2" lower than the V8 because the narrow 60 degree V gave me lots of room to the firewall and I planned to dry-sump it anyway so shortening the pan was not an issue....you know, since I was already cutting and welding.

I also needed to extend the trans shaft. Making a whole new one is a huge job so I decided to follow the Goldsmith lead and just extend the gear out. Now while he welded the gear to the hud and I heard had some issues with that setup, I designed a bolt together setup (that may or may not explode).

Now, on the blower engine with 450ish ft-lbs torque I found 1st gear pretty much useless and the V12 is supposed to make over 500 ft-lbs. So, as long as I was messing with the trans gear and clutch shaft I decided it would be a good idea to swap the the 2 gears and put the trans gear on the clutch and the clutch gear on the trans. This is good for a 23% change in drive ratio and puts 1st gear almost to where the stock 2nd gear was.

Great!...no wait.... that means the idler gear is in the wrong place so that has to move too, but whats a little more cutting and welding right?

It looks like I left off with a new boss welded in the the bellhousing/drop gear case and the center located but it needs to be machined for the bearing.

I also decided to add an outboard bearing to the trans gear so the cover needs bosses for both the idler and trans gears. I also looks like I left the trans gear hub oversized a few thou so that needs to be finished.

The 1st day of spring is exactly 2 months away


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:33 pm 
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Just because I obsession over stupid sh*t........

Rather than make billet cam end covers and just get it done I got a buddy to agree to cast covers for me so they look like the factory 400i covers but fit the TR heads.

Then I got another buddy to help me with an emblem for the car. I'm going to replace the the "quattrovalvole" with a front/size/design matched "gemellocattivo" which means evil twin in Italian

The designs are done and parts should be ready in a couple weeks :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:04 pm 
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Some more work on the gear. The gears all fit in the main case properly now and I'm on to adding out-board bearings to the cover. The bosses are in and ready for finish machining.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:00 pm 
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all done.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 10:40 pm 
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There was a whole lot of kicking and screaming by both me and the engine but in the end I won and the engine is now completely assembled.....I think.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:44 pm 
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I THINK the engine is ready to drop in the car.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:22 pm 
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Its in the car with a full 1?4" to spare once I removed everything I could and got it turned just right.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:24 pm 
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I'm trying to sort out the exhaust now. The front headers still need the 2-1 collector and everything from there back, the rear set has the start of the 2-1 collect....4 of the 6 collectors ended up on curvers. The original plan was 750 to maybe 800hp so I planned 3" exhaust and have pair of borla XR-1 multicore mufflers which I knew would be too loud but....

Now dynomation is saying 940 is possible so that means 3.5" exhaust so I'm keeping the borlas and adding a pair of much quieter mufflers from these guys:
http://www.stainlesssteelmufflers.com/350mufflers.htm

and vaccum cutout valves to turn of the borlas until I'm at least out of my development
http://www.quality-tuning.com/exhaust-vacuum-valves

The plan is to size the quiet mufflers for 250-300hp give control of the valves to the ECU and keep the engine quiet in all "normal" driving conditions. The engine should be crossing the 300hp point around 4000rpm but I'm expecting a bit of a dip around 3500 so I'm also curious to see if the dip is real and if the muffler helps any.

.....but I'm not exactly rolling in space to pack all this stuff that I never planned to have and still need to find room for air filters, oil tank and coolant line and oil filters and lines among other things :shock: :? :(


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:56 am 
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This has nothing to do with going fast but I think it's pretty cool to see.

I wanted cam end covers that eliminated the distributors and other stuff but looked stock so.......custom cast covers courtesy of my buddy Brian the casting master :)

They'll get machined in the coming days then shipped from Ireland and I'll be able to close up the holes in the end of my engine.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:17 pm 
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Looking very good!

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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:47 pm 
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My cams have quite a lot of duration so I'm not expecting much vacuum....so out with the power brakes.

I'm going to be using calipers with MUCH larger pistons than stock so the stock master cylinder needed to be replaced with something bigger. I got a fiat van master that has a bigger and bore would have been a bolt-in had I not decided to ditch teh power.

I THINK that with this setup I will now have both enough system volume and enough mechanical advantage.....I'll find out in a couple moths when I try to stop I guess :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:50 pm 
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I'm going to DBW and got a porsche throttle setup. The pedal is ALL plastic..what a piece of sh*t.

It got a WOT switch that is pretty hard to push, not sure what they use that for.

I popped on the actual sensor and thing I can mount it to connect to the stock throttle pedal...I think.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:09 pm 
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I'd heard Porsche pedals were like totally the new wave in weight reduction.
I think it was called "PRA"- Polymer Reinforced Atmosphere.


otherwise >thumbsup<

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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:30 pm 
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abecedarian wrote:
I'd heard Porsche pedals were like totally the new wave in weight reduction.
I think it was called "PRA"- Polymer Reinforced Atmosphere.


otherwise >thumbsup<


If by new wave you my POS the yes :)

It is well a reinforced/webbed design and does appear to be a glass reinforced polymer but it's twisty and...it scares me.

I don't know about the new pedals though, this is a 96 pedal that was a transition to stuff DBW into a pedal box that was designed for the cable.....which is exactly what I'm trying to do so it seemed a good place to start.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:20 pm 
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The sawzall was out again this weekend :)

This weekend project was to rebuild the pedal box to hold the standard race master cylinder setup. I was going to try to keep the stock brake master setup…but I've changed weight bias and brake sizes so much I decided to just bite the bullet and put in an adjustable setup, plus I needed to do something to add a clutch master anyway so….now it’s done.

I still need to fix the pedals and it may need a tune-up to work with the heater control stuff that is kind of in the way, but the box was the biggest part of the job.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:40 am 
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Last weekend I turned a box-O-steel into wheels speed chopper wheels/ front brake rotor adapters. I did 30 teeth because it fit well..very scientific :)

I'll be using hall sensors and they will mount int he caliber brackets I need to make next.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 6:44 am 
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ECU related....I did a little shopping yesterday.
I'm adding fuel pressure and temperature sensors so I those are coming. I've never used these before but I'm told warm fuel runs leaner so.....

I also finally decided what I want to do with the analog inputs I have available..... NB02 on each cylinder. These will read pretty well from maybe 13.2-13.5 down to maybe 15 pretty well so I can tune idle to at least 80% full power on all the cylinders at once then just carry the corrections forward to full power and tune that with the WBO2 in the collector. This will make perfect idle and cruise much easier to achieve I think

under $25 each on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-15703-Oxyge ... 5C79TXHX2S

bungs with plugs under $9:
http://www.amazon.com/Innovate-Motorspo ... ds=O2+bung

A pretty cheap way to get a lot of helpful data. This will give me WB02 in the 2 collectors and NBO2 on the tubes unless I see something weird then I can just move a WB to the tube of interest and see what's going on.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:36 pm 
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I decided to upgrade from my waste spark plan to direct fire using LS-2(like) coils.....and they're red so they must be good!

I'm going to be asking for everything the little 5634 has when I'm finally ready to test o5e :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:13 am 
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Cute little coils. :)


I also think O5E is going to be in for a major overhaul.

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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:03 am 
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Somehow 14 O2 sensors seemed like a better plan in my head than it seems looking at 14 O2 sensors, bungs and connector in a pile on the floor!

Same for the box of 12 LS-2 coils....actually a box of 16 coils because they were sets of 8 so I guess that like project looks worse than it actually is . They are Chinese coils so I figured having 4 spares was probably a good thing.

The SS brake line also came so I should be ready there if I ever finish the brackets.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:06 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
Cute little coils. :)


I also think O5E is going to be in for a major overhaul.


The really nice thing about LS coils is they have the ignitors built in so they make life pretty easy.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:32 pm 
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I have working front brakes and I think the master and pedal ration will be fine. I also have working front wheel speed with a good looking signal on the scope, and I'm nearly to a working clutch. I took a detour to the clutch because I thought I could re-purpose the original rear brake line to the clutch and it seemed to work out pretty well...1 more fitting and the clutch should work.

I was able to re-work the adapter fittings that came with the master cylinders to accept the M10 metric fittings so that made things a bit neater which I like. I was also able to replace the original proportioning valve with a T bolted in the same spot, so again neat.

The rear brakes are going to be more work. I need to make the adapter brackets like I did for the front but I also need to add the new proportioning valve and parking master then run all new lines....lots to do.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 11, 2013 9:52 am
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Location: Over here, doing 'over here' things.
I'd suggest having at least some sort of proportioning valve system in place.

Not sure how deep you want to go but since you have wheel speed sensors on the fronts, an electro-mechanically controlled valve that responds to wheel speed, a.k.a. poor-man's ABS, might be an idea.

Toyota and others used a "load sensing, proportioning valve with bypass valve" (LSPV-BV), that under normal operation, would increase rear brake pressure in accordance with the load in the rear of the truck- makes sense when you consider a light load doesn't need full pressure and a heavy load does. One port on the valve was also teed into the front brake circuit so that if the front brakes failed for whatever reason, the rear brakes would receive full pressure regardless of the load.

My thought this way is that you have two such valves which are cross-linked so that a failure in one causes full pressure be available to the other. Since these are mechanical proportioning valves, a system based on accelerometer and wheel speed sensors controls the "load sense" and thus the pressure delivered front / rear as necessary.

A failure in the electronics wouldn't affect brakes, per se, other than that could affect the pressure delivered to the brakes, but in no way would the pressure be reduced to nothing, and therefore at least some braking ability would be available.

As a side note, you could cross-link front to rear, and further cross-link left to right, requiring 4 of said valves, allowing you to dynamically bias braking across all four corners... albeit without the ability to selectively apply braking force to a wheel, only relegated to limiting the pressure a brake caliper has applied to it.

Servo's might be a good choice as they can be positioned by PWM and have....



/me grabs head and pulls down.

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