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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:46 pm 
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i thoguht I was over complicating it but that sound WAY complicated :lol:

the idea's right though. I have 3 master cylinders, 1 for the clutch (which is now connected and working btw), 1 for the front (also finished and working) and 1 for the rear.

Between the f/r masters is a balance bar. This allows the % of the pedal force delivered to the front and rear master to be adjusted which sets the low speed or inherent system balance. The bar is inside a tube that limits total deflection so should the front or rear system fail the bar will bang the tube and lock so the the other 1/2 of the system will still function. Right now the front brakes are working but the rears are not even connected so it does what it's supposed to do safety wise.

Then there is an adjustable proportioning valve in the rear line to reduce the rear braking force as braking pressure goes up because as pressure goes up the weight and therefore traction will be shifting forward. The adjuster is 0-57% reduction but I should only need ....30% or so I think because this is a midengine car with a pretty low center of gravity.

Once the car is running driving I have some adjusting I need to do, but there is a lot of adjustability in the system so I should be able to get it working the way its supposed to work. I'm going to try to mount the proportioning valve somewhere I can reach from the driver's seat....maybe under the dash or in the ashtray, something like that.

The one sort of sketchy thing I'm doing is a hydraulic parking brake instead of mechanical......it's just easier so......


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:28 pm 
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Bear in mind FMVSS / CMVSS 105 S5.2 requirements require mechanical, frictional operated parking brakes. It's been contested as to what that means but has been upheld that hydraulic or pneumatic parking brake actuators are not street legal, leaving you with a cable. Makes sense to an extent as this is your "last ditch" effort for brakes should something fail.

However, air brake systems are permitted with parking brake systems because the braking force is applied by a spring in the brake pod rotating the cam, thus fulfilling the "mechanical" aspect of the requirements, and air pressure is used to release the parking brakes, not hold them therefore the loss of air pressure will set the brakes- the last ditch. Case in point- most semis have a hand-operated lever that can apply trailer brakes independently of the foot brake; ideally this should be modulating the air provided to the parking brake mechanism and not the foot brake portion of the brake pods, though in practice they tend to port that to the service brake and not the parking brake.



Regarding complicated... :D
I concede that. I was just thinking outside the box. ;)

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:44 am 
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Yes, my hydraulic parking park will be....will be......non-compiling.

I do have an electrically controlled mechanical emergency brake with speed proportional air assist though so I should be all set in the event of a double braking system failure.....it just happens to by pure chance to be connected to the ignition switch :)

I think their logic was you needed 2 systems, then dual masters came along and the logic switched to something like even a tiny leak in a hydraulic system could cause the parking brake to release...either that or they believe people have forgotten where the on/off mode selector switch is locate :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:01 pm 
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Rear calipers on. the sensors didn't fit the way I want so I said f--k it, I'll just use the speedo output for now.

On to the parking brake.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:30 am 
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mk e wrote:
Yes, my hydraulic parking park will be....will be......non-compiling.

I do have an electrically controlled mechanical emergency brake with speed proportional air assist though so I should be all set in the event of a double braking system failure.....it just happens to by pure chance to be connected to the ignition switch :)

I think their logic was you needed 2 systems, then dual masters came along and the logic switched to something like even a tiny leak in a hydraulic system could cause the parking brake to release...either that or they believe people have forgotten where the on/off mode selector switch is locate :lol:

Flexible rubber hoses do tend to deteriorate and such... remember this is for your safety, not mine. But I can imagine the last resort is turn the key off and pull down a few gears. If done right, one of the pistons is bound to lock up the rear wheels.

Anyhow, what you do is what you do. I'd just hate to see all the work you've put in to your car, and you for that matter, go to waste.

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:24 am 
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So I spend a couple hours not being happy with anything I cam up with on the non-complying parking master mount.....then decide it didn't belong in the cabin it belonged in the engine bay. I cut up the Chinese drift brake I bought and once I mount it to the frame it should connect to the stock parking brake handle with a simple rod. Almost there I think.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:32 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
Flexible rubber hoses do tend to deteriorate and such... remember this is for your safety, not mine. But I can imagine the last resort is turn the key off and pull down a few gears. If done right, one of the pistons is bound to lock up the rear wheels.

Anyhow, what you do is what you do. I'd just hate to see all the work you've put in to your car, and you for that matter, go to waste.


All fair points...but you ride your motorcycle right? It's got EXACTLY the same braking system I'm building but with out the for show parking brake. Separate front and rear with the off switch for a triple emergency.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:24 am 
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I've been chatting with a motec dealer about a custom FW package for me to fix a couple things that bother me abotu the GPR package I was planning to use. The M1xx ecu have "M1build" which makes custom FW but lots of licensing to buy....but part of the intent is to have like an "app" store for FW builds so a developer creates a custom package and motec makes it available for purchase.

anyway, Clint was also talking to me about using an innovate LC-2 in the collector to do cylinder O2 reading.....I think the knock function can do it in the M150 and also in o5e so.......I think I'm going to hook the 2 WB02 sensors to the knock inputs on the M150 and find out ....when I'm actually up and runing.

The knock inputs are a 160K pullup to 2.5V (0v - 160k - sensor - 160k - 5V) but I'm thinking that won't matter much and normal operation at 14.7ish AFR is 2.5V so mostly there is never current flowing. The other thing is these inputs are read at 50khz.....we'll need to keep that in mind.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:46 pm 
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I THINK the parking brake will work and I just need cotter pis and brake lines. I'm waiting on a fitting but I can get everything else done in the mean time.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:34 pm 
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When I was laying out my pin counts and used up all the analog inputs the ECU has, I was forgetting that DWB uses 2 sensors on the pedal and throttle so I'm 2 short :(

The knock pins would work and I was thinking if I could use them to measure cylinder O2 but now that it looks like that won't work I'd like to save the pins for future knock sensors.

The ECU has 6 temp inputs of which I need 3 so 3 are available but they have a 1k ohm pull-up resistor on them making them less than ideal for voltage meaurements.......hmmmmm.......I spent some time looking the ECU board over under a microscope today and I'm pretty sure I've found the pull-up resistors and #5&6 are off by themselves and should easy to pop off the board which would convert them back to normal analog inputs.

Another possible option is to use custom firmware to read the WBO2 over the serial connection and the FW guy is looking into that for me......so 1 way of the other I'm getting 2 more analog inputs :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:12 pm 
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Here's a cropped version.

I think the 4 circled resistors are NBO2, NBO2, Temp, Temp so those 4 channels could be quickly/easily converted to voltage.

I'm planning to use 12 NBO2 sensors so I''ll leave the NB channels alone...but those 2 temp channels.....


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:14 am 
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The m150 has 6 AT(Analog Temp) inputs and only found 6 1k resistors on the whole board so I'm pretty confident and decided to go ahead and pop 2 resistors off the very expensive ECU circuit board. Those parts are TINY! I used 2 soldering irons as tweezers to heat and lift so as not to damage anything and it seems to work nicely....so AT 5&6 should now be effectively AV (AnalogVolt) 18&19 and I'm good to go.....I think.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:15 am 
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Yesterday the 2 quieter mufflers I ordered WAY back finally arrived and they are just beautiful and WAY nicer than I was expecting for under $120 each. They're made to order in Alabama and appearently one of the late winter stores froze the shop so they were backed up. These are the old school perforated core design but heavy gauge SS so they should last way longer than my lifetime.

http://www.stainlesssteelmufflers.com/350mufflers.htm

The plan is to put these in parallel (notice the ECU speak :) ) with the loud borla racing muffler and ECU controlled valves on the borlas so at about the 300hp point so all normal driving is normal noise.

These are their "muffle car" design which are supposed to have decent rumble at idle but quite down nicely by 2000 or so. I went with 2.25" OD which should mean they are good for ....300hp-350hp maybe. Sizing is kind of important because it's the flow that does the muffling...too big and they'll be loud, too small and they whistle and choke the engine, but I can fix that by by opening the bypass valves early so better small than big I think.

So, as soon as I finish the brakes I think I'm ready to get back to exhaust.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:39 pm 
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I'd kind of like to see your ideas for the exhaust system.

Are you thinking like:
Code:
    /--[BORLA]--[VALVE]--[EXIT]
--<
    \----[QUIET MUFF]----[EXIT]

...or...
Code:
    /--[BORLA]--[VALVE]--\
--<                        >--[EXIT]
    \----[QUIET MUFF]----/


... or?

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:46 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
I'd kind of like to see your ideas for the exhaust system.

Are you thinking like:
Code:
    /--[BORLA]--[VALVE]--[EXIT]
--<
    \----[QUIET MUFF]----[EXIT]



Yes this.


Code:
    /--[VALVE]--[BORLA]----[EXIT]
--<
    \----[QUIET MUFF]----[EXIT]



or this

It will be a 4 tip design similar looking to original from the back....or at least that's the plan.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 1:42 pm 
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So in a bizarre twist of events I ended up talking to Marcus today about using o5e to augment MoToc ecus....like the one I happen to have.

MoTec made the choice not to support any type of analog O2 signal. Since the only sensor without an analog option int he whole ECU is O2, I'm pretty sure they did that so they could continue to sell their LTC device (lambda to CAN) at $500 per O2 sensor you want to read.

So I was planning to live with only a display of O2 data on a different input channel until o5e is up and running...but there is no reason why a version of o5e can't emulate the motec LTC.

A $25 5602 board has serial to read innovate devices, an ADC with 15 AN pins, CAN to talk to whatever and runs the core of the o5e core...... so it would be a nearly idea CAN expansion unit. hmmmmm

Marcus and I were just talking about high pin count costs money and expansion options is probably best for most people....so there may be an expansion unit before there is an ECU :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:10 am 
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I finished the collector from hell last night....hopefully I don't run into it's even more evil bother when I move on the rear bank which I think is a tighter space.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:19 am 
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2015-04-15 003.JPG is giving me nightmare flashbacks. Here's the antidote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8h2LOzRrQ4M


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:26 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
I'd kind of like to see your ideas for the exhaust system.

Are you thinking like:
Code:
    /--[BORLA]--[VALVE]--[EXIT]
--<
    \----[QUIET MUFF]----[EXIT]



I settled on this because it just fit better. I built a 4 muffler pack, sliced off the nipples to save room, added the valves to the mufflers and started fitting it all.

I've never worked with anything over 2.5" exhaust pipe so I'm learning this 3.5" stuff takes a LOT of space! what a pain.

I'm thinking I'll do conjoined 3" tips. This kind of keeps the look of the original 4 tip setup but also give me a pretty good match to the 3.5" pipe flow area wise and keeps the low power exhaust in small area pipes which should prevent the low frequency drone while cruising that big pipes usually cause.

I ordered a bunch more bends that should be here by the weekend so hopefully I can get the exhaust finished in the coming week or so.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:20 pm 
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Still mad the crazy expensive motec M150 has 2 lambda pins it can't use for lambda, you need to buy a CAN converter for $560/channel instead.......Marcus said he's got some time to help out so I just got a couple of the TRK-UBS-MPC5602P boards to make a couple prototype AN to CAN units. They'll have calibration lookup tables on all the AN so it can read any NB sensor or WB controller and replace 8-12 LTC units (depending what connector we find) or send any other AN signal in for the pins challenged M130. If it works we'll have some run off and through them on ebay for anyone else who needs it....it shouldn't be more than $100. Problem solved.

This will also be the first 05e product it looks like and should work as an expander for o5e, MS or motec,

Now back to exhaust :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:13 pm 
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mk e wrote:
Still mad the crazy expensive motec M150 has 2 lambda pins it can't use for lambda, you need to buy a CAN converter for $560/channel instead.......Marcus said he's got some time to help out so I just got a couple of the TRK-UBS-MPC5602P boards to make a couple prototype AN to CAN units. They'll have calibration lookup tables on all the AN so it can read any NB sensor or WB controller and replace 8-12 LTC units (depending what connector we find) or send any other AN signal in for the pins challenged M130. If it works we'll have some run off and through them on ebay for anyone else who needs it....it shouldn't be more than $100. Problem solved.

This will also be the first 05e product it looks like and should work as an expander for o5e, MS or motec,

Now back to exhaust :)

Might be an idea to toss a handful of thermocouple interfaces on it for sampling EGT?

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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:48 pm 
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abecedarian wrote:
Might be an idea to toss a handful of thermocouple interfaces on it for sampling EGT?


Maybe or maybe a different version. I'm not sure how common that is these days.....I know the MS group just got the capability but the rest of the world has moved to some extent. I'll mention it to Marcus....the 5602 has 15 AN channels and it can be mux'd to 33 I think, but the primary goal is an inexpensive unit to add AN channels so the ECU doesn't need a massive connector.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:48 pm 
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Not as far as I hoped to get, but progress. I had a couple cones I bought for the collectors but couldn't use because the transitions fell on bends, but cones fit the tips well. I gave it a quick buffer just to see....I like it I think. What I don't like is the ridiculous amount of time its taking to build...this goes on the list of bad ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 2:11 pm 
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A little closer on the exhaust....I have 4 tips now and just need ot actually connect themufflers.

I didn't post this before but the welding took things pretty badly out of round....so I beat it back into shape.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:11 pm 
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No actual work done but here's something I stumbled on a few years ago
http://enginelab.net/

but thought they'd folded......they haven't. I had a long chat with Jim from engine labs and what they did was do an exclusive deal with AEM
http://www.aemelectronics.com/products/ ... inity-ecu/

So the whole AEM infinity line is of EngineLab design and based on the engineLab code system. If you buy the AEM hardware and ask Jim nicely he'll set you up with access to the engine lab system at no charge and you can reprogram the ECU to do whatever you please. He told me all the 2 connector units are the same and have 12 fuel and 12 spark drivers, I'd just need to buy one and start programming it....very very tempting :)


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