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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:00 am 
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I have been playing a lot with my spiffy new motec M150 with the GPR software package....and honestly I'm a bit disappointed.

The engine control part is nice enough I guess but the optional stuff is pretty weak so you can't actually use a lot of the I/O features the unit has, or at least not with the GPR package. I guess if you fork out the EXTRA $5k for a development package that lets you write your own functions you could use everything, but not so much with the $1285 GPR package, on top of the $4k ECU.

It does make me want to finish 05e again thought ;)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 11:07 am 
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I got my fancy new Injector Dynamic ID1000 injectors!

...but they sent the wrong part number and I had to machine the top to fit the 11mm o-rings I used on the fuel rail. It was easy to just machine it myself than screw around sending back and waiting.

These are 1015cc/min @3bar and will let me run about a 35% ducy cycle, so fuel only sprays have air is moving into the cylinder. They come fully dynamically characterized and with a file that drops straight into the M150 so that was nice...so it theory my engine will still idle with massive injectors.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:09 pm 
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mk e wrote:
I have been playing a lot with my spiffy new motec M150 with the GPR software package....and honestly I'm a bit disappointed.............


So I didn't post this before but as I went through the M150 setup work to help me plan-out what I'm doing I realized the ONLY way it accepts an O2 signal is from a $563 motec CAN WBO2 controller, sensor extra and they want you to buy from them for another $300 I think it was because they appearently sort OEM sensors to get some specific tolerance. wow.

There is simple no way to tune the ecu without O2 readings. This is because of the way all the enrichments work...very complicated and designed to maintain constant lambda. I did figure-out how to get it to display a signal from another control by telling the ECU is was an oil pressure sensor or oil Temp and then adding oil pres/temp to the tuning screens so I can see and log the reading, but they still can't be used for closed loop or auto-tune type stuff.

Logging is another place they want you to spend. There is a very basic logging package included but you can't alter it in anyway without buying an upgrade. The full upgrade is amazing, like 1000 channels at 1000hz ....but I'm cheap I'm stuck with so it logs what it logs. It has 2 lambda channels, if you have 2 CAN controllers but after digging through for several hours I found the only things it had that I wasn't already using were oil temp and pressure.

so...I set it up to have oil temp/pressure display as lambda x100 making 1.0 lambda = 100C or 100kpa...easy enough to understand and any O2 controller with a signal in the 0-5V range can be read.

What a bother. The claim is that most O2 stuff just isn't very good and caused more problems than it solved so they no longer support it....and it might be true. I'll find out in about March I hope when this thing should be finally ready to try.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:40 pm 
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Way back when I was trying to figureout the 05e sync issues I put my flywheel (which I designed and made) in the lathe and put a hall sensor in the tool holder and hooked it to the dev board.....and found that the ears I put on the flywheel to hold the ring gear were being read by the sensor and really bugging up the signal.

The solution was to move the sensor as far as possible out to get it away from the ears, that got me back to outputting the 36-1 pattern it was supposed to be outputting and back to working on the code issue.....and I pretty much forgot about the problem.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago and it was time to mount the crank pick-up on my engine and about 1/2 way through the issue came jumping back into my mind. Flywheel back in the lathe, the bosch VR sensor I planned to use in the tool holder and scope on the output.......perfect no matter where I positioned the sensor. You gotta love VR sensors is all I can say


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Here's the sensor mount/flywheel cover being made


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:48 pm 
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I had to make a TDC pointer too....I guess I didn't HAVE to add it...but it sure is nice to have one.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:59 pm 
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I figured having a water pump would be useful....but I put a drysump return pump where the water pump used to be so I needed to do something different. I got a great deal on a race pump for a ford that after just a bit of work looks pretty good.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:04 pm 
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Then mount the water pump and add the an alternator and a belt so it all fits and works


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:12 pm 
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I also needed a way to get the water into the engine...the old inlet pointed at my oil return pump and wasn't very useful


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:15 pm 
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A quick test fit. The engine looks bigger than the car...but it goes...if you twist it just so :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 9:17 am 
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I could've sworn that car was red last I saw it...


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:00 pm 
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It's been blue for as long as I can remember... which isn't very long. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:14 pm 
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When I bought it I figured a Blue car that needs a paint job is a Red car so it's both I guess :lol:





The blue has grown on me though, so odds are it will stay blue.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:18 pm 
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Work continues now that I got the silly CIS to EFI intake done of a buddy.

Way back when I made the cams I screwed up measuring and forgot to subtract out the 1/8" thickness of the parallel I used to hold the mic......so my cam drive sprockets are 1/8" in the wrong spot...or they were anyway.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Just a little looking back to remind everyone why something as simple as a timing chain fitting is such a big step forward. The heads came from an engine with timing belts :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:38 pm 
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On to the cam position sensor. A buddy sent me this little GM front wheel speed sensor that he swears by as God's gift to position sensors.....and it's got an o-ring so it looks like I can just pop it into the head of cam cover....but I'm thinking I'll got with the cam cover so it's not flowed with oil and I'm not double dog daring it to leak.

The motec manual says nothing about the missing tooth location or cam position senor location....but.....I just emailed my motec dealer asking if there's a "right" spot for this. An email popped right back with "Oh yes!, please call"

Hopefully since the M150 is a 55xx and from the call outs in the setup I'd say is based on the Freescale eTPU code the the "right" spot for motec will also work for the o5e code :o


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:26 pm 
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mk e wrote:
The motec manual says nothing about the missing tooth location or cam position senor location....but.....I just emailed my motec dealer asking if there's a "right" spot for this. An email popped right back with "Oh yes!, please call"

Hopefully since the M150 is a 55xx and from the call outs in the setup I'd say is based on the Freescale eTPU code the the "right" spot for motec will also work for the o5e code :o


Ok...I learned something today that I probably should have already known.

1) its best to have the missing tooth away from TDC on any cylinder because during cranking the rpm changes the faster near TDC events.....duh but I never really paid attention to it before.

2) Its best to set the cam in between the crank teeth

3) It's best id NO timing events happen at a crank or cam event.

All makes sense I just never really thought about it.

This is interesting....motec doesn't care where I put the cam sensor. Where ever it sees the cam, the next missing tooth is the system zero point and #1 TDC can be +/- 720 from there. I'm pretty sure they are using the FS eTPU code basically unchanged and just set the cam window full open. So, it wants exactly what o5e want :)


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:56 am 
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Looking at it, I can turn my flywheel 45 degrees (8 bolt pattern) and it will be about the best it can be. The whole missing tooth event on my 36-1 wheel is 30 degrees (1 tooth for final rpm read before is 10 plus the gap is 20) so the 45 degree roll means the event starts 15 ATDC and ends 15 degrees BTDC of the next event.

Then I get an added benefit that the current TDC mark on the flywheel becomes a 15 BTDC mark for cylinder #7 (if I did my math right) which is a fine setup timing number and all I ever need is a dumb timing light instead of a dial-back type light which the motec people say NEVER use

Thinking more about the cam sensor and my 1 missing tooth it seems that since the ECU doesn't use any sort of angle in the setup.....then the closer the cam pulse to the actual missing tooth the better because there is less chance a tooth read error will be seen as the missing tooth......so I'm now thinking like 35 before tooth #1 so its just before the final rpm reading going into the gap. This is still fine with the o5e code too so all good.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:26 am 
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Back to the cam position sensor. I fitted it to the cam cover last night so now on to a trigger wheel


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:22 am 
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So, you'll have this engine installed in my motorcycle with the CVT by the end of February, like you said, right?

:mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:45 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
So, you'll have this engine installed in my motorcycle with the CVT by the end of February, like you said, right?

:mrgreen:


yeah......about that..... :)

Trigger made. I hooked the sensor to a scope and spun the cam about 50-60rpm which should be close to what it'll see during cranking and got about 1.0 - 1.5V peak to peak which I think will do.

The VR setup in the M150 has a couple rpm table based filter parameters...I haven't seen that before and it seems to be just what the doctor ordered since I can accept most anything during cranking then filter more out as the signal gets stronger.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:56 am 
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Time to put valves in....but first they need to be made ready.

Way back I decided to use aftermarket Hayabusa valve train stuff. This let me convert from shim over bucket to shim under, get springs that will handle the lift I have (just barely!), lighten everything up to easily handle the rpm I want and get bigger valves.

I had to buy the valves as blanks though so I could cut them to Ferrari length instead of suzuki length and that is the project at hand.


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:15 pm 
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Mark,
Are you available for an offline conversation? I tried emailing, but haven't heard back.
Thanks!
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:12 am 
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7 years and 1 month of kicking and screaming after the 2v heads came off also kicking and scream (the heads tend to corrode and lock on the studs) the 4v heads are on!


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 Post subject: Re: FrankenFerrari
PostPosted: Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:29 pm 
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Only thing I've really heard is that missing teeth should be placed somewhere when nothing is supposed to happen, so typically should be somewhere fairly close to 5-10 ATDC for #1 cylinder, i.e. there are tooth events up to TDC for the first cylinder in the sequence and at least one-two tooth events following TDC. Doing so minimizes interpolation errors that can accumulate: it's bad enough that a 60-1 wheel has 6 degrees between teeth, a 32-1 has 12 degrees, et cetera, but during the missing tooth part, you have at least 1 missing tooth which can substantially alter what the ECU calculates the crank position as being at if a timer happens to overflow during that period... which is usually what happens and causes the ECU to detect the missing tooth.

Anyhow, I like the thought you're putting into what you're doing with the engine. Have you given any consideration to how to counteract torque leaning issues once this is installed in my motorcycle's frame? :D

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