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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:00 pm 
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abecedarian wrote:
Yes, one sensor is for MAP (manifold absolute pressure) and the other is barometric pressure.

Though not necessarily 'required', barometric pressure sensing- along with ambient temperature sensing- allows you to more accurately determine the amount of fuel required instead of relying on some hard-coded values and letting the O2 sensor correct things. Another benefit of barometric pressure sensing is it allows the ECU to more easily correct for changes in altitude, like when driving in mountainous areas, without having to deal with the inherent delay the O2 feedback loop incurs.



No, baro is not requited for proper fueling....well you could be off about 1% without it

The MS problem with mountains and mixtures is unique to MS. That said I"m pretty sure the reason they have that problem is because they use MAP/baro for load % and to get the baro number with no baro sensor they simply record MAP at key on instead of using 101 like everyone else does.

Where baro and Map/baro load isis nice is for keeping the ecu on the correct load cell regardless of baro changes so that's a nice feature I'm pretty sure MS has. When you use MAP or MAP/101 for load baro changes change the % laod the ecu is sensing. You still get the mixture you asked for at that MAP value but you may have the throttle wide open and the ECU sees a MAP of 85 and you may have programmed a bit leaner mixture and a bit more timing thinking 85kpa is not full power and you want to save fuel under those conditions.

The simple solution is to use TPS load sensing so the ECU always knows EXACTLY what power setting you intend and will always look in the correct cells. TPS load sense is harder to tune but generally worth the effort. MAF load sense should work with 1 cell and more is gravy. MAP needs mores but you can linearize a lot of it and have a good table, with TPS you basically need to tune every single cell in the table.....but once you do the work it's very good.

As for the baro and MAP going to the ECU...the o5e code doesn't currently use both baro and MAP. It can read them, but doesn't use them. If you have MAP load sense you get the MAP/101 method. If you use TPS then the MAP signal is assumed to be baro but you could add some sensitivity to the system by using MAP, the code shouldn't care.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:15 am 
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So o5e can use speed-density or alpha-n or a combination of them?
can you give more info about the MAP/101 method?


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:45 am 
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Diabolik wrote:
So o5e can use speed-density or alpha-n or a combination of them?
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Yes....in theory because it's never actually run anything at this point but there is an option in load sensing. MAF is also an option but that is not very well thought though yet.


Diabolik wrote:
can you give more info about the MAP/101 method?


O5e puts load on the y axis and rpm on the x

rpm is obvious but there are several option for how to use load info. One option is to simple present MAP in kPa and call it load and it works just fine but then load is in units of kPa which means have load sense options is more challenging.

The other option is to put load in units of % so the tables and math is all the same regardless of load sense option and this is what o5e does. There are a couple obvious ways to get MAP into a %. I'm pretty sure MS uses MAP/baro so load% is the % of what is possible with the air you have but this REQUIRES a baro sensor to work right. o5e and most other ecus choose option "b" which is to use MAP/101 so load is the % of what is possible at standard (sea level) conditions and no baro reading is required.

Both methods have there plus and minus points. Both give you exactly the mixture and spark timing you asked for at the current conditions (unless you have an MS with no baro attached). I planned to add a baro option to 05e at some point (it's a very simple option to add) but for now it's not in the code...there is a MAP2 input that is read and that is where you'd connect the baro sensor but so you could read it and log it but you can't currently use it in the engine control.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 12:14 pm 
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Thanks! :) I've seen EN pin of MC33810A connected on pin 95 of mcu in nanoskwert schematic, but in MSQ is connected on etpua23 (pin23 of mcu). what's the difference? and why in MSQ AN35,23,24,25 are connected to GND?they can't be only unconected if not used?


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:08 am 
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Diabolik wrote:
Thanks! :) I've seen EN pin of MC33810A connected on pin 95 of mcu in nanoskwert schematic, but in MSQ is connected on etpua23 (pin23 of mcu). what's the difference? and why in MSQ AN35,23,24,25 are connected to GND?they can't be only unconected if not used?

Regarding the EN pin (I assume you mean the active low OUTEN/OUT_ENB [different sources mention it differently] pin, pin 9 on the 33810?), what pin it connects to on the MCU is mostly the result of the board design and program.

The MCU "pulls" that pin to ground in order to enable the output drivers. One thing you might also consider is that pin should be pulled up to VDD so that none of the outputs can trigger an event like squirting fuel or firing a coil when the ECU powers up... something FS omitted from the evaluation kit.


Regarding why MSQ AN pins are pulled to ground, I couldn't tell you. They are not pulled to ground on the TRK board, although AN35 is connected to an ambient light sensor through a resistor and two capacitors via J31 on the board... just a feature to show off what the 5634 can do. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:38 am 
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yes, i was talking about outen. so i can use the same pin of nanoskwert and sert it in fw right?


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:15 pm 
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Diabolik wrote:
yes, i was talking about outen. so i can use the same pin of nanoskwert and sert it in fw right?

You can use any GPIO capable pin you want.

Like I mentioned, put a weak pull-up resistor (4.7-10K should suffice) between that pin and VDD to disable the outputs, then pull the MCU's GPIO pin it is connected with to ground to enable chip's outputs.

I would probably have something set up so that once the crank trigger decoder has synched up, it enables the chip so that you're not at risk of injecting fuel or sparking things off until you're really ready to do so.

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:18 pm 
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Are you working on a design specifically for the engine and vehicle stated in the title of this thread or a more general purpose one? If the latter, you might outline the goals for the design. It would help @abcedarian, and any others interested, to help you.

As for comparing the MSQorivva to the NanoSkewert, one was designed by some guys in the UK who presumably have engineering degrees, years of experience in the field, and work for the actual company which manufactures the more complex devices used on their board. The other was designed by someone who claims to live in Australia.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 1:54 am 
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Whilst I have no qualms with someone designing a system for their own, personal needs, using the sensors and such they have on hand, I do think attempting to target a broader audience could be beneficial. That could cause considerations for design and components that a more narrow focus would otherwise exclude. It can also give you pause to think about things you may want to experiment with in the future that may not be otherwise possible with a system that only does what you need "right now".

I can't speak for everyone here, but if you're unwilling to post things here for the world to see, I'm willing to look at PM's and such and maintain confidentiality. Keep in mind I am no expert on anything.

Who knows... you might have a way of looking at something that no one else has seen, which could lead to some breakthrough for O5E as a whole.

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 2:15 pm 
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I'm so sorry , I had a bad day at work (which I probably lost ) , I need a few days to cool the brain and clear my head. now I'm too nervous . However , I promise that I will be ' back and we will continue this discussion. I thank you all for the advice , see you soon .


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 Post subject: Re: Suzuki Vitara 1.6 8v '91 (G16A)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:12 pm 
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Sorry to hear this. I hope everything works out for the better. ;)

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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