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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:50 pm 
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abecedarian wrote:
Not sure it's necessary, but definitely helpful, would be a barometric pressure sensor.


That continues to perplex me every time I hear it. None of the major aftermarket ECUs use them in their standard setup, at least not that I know of.

There is a sort of-kind of way to add it to a motec, but all it does is correct the load %, meaning you tune for say lambda of .85 at full load or 100 kpa and 1.0 at light cruise of say 70kpa......but 70kpa could be full load at mountain top so you're still exactly right on you tuning, but maybe a bit lean for 100% power. The baro lets the ecu know that 70=100%.....or just use TPS load sensing with the map acting as baro and never think about the issue again ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:52 pm 
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reanimotion wrote:

I was thinking more the CPU ports to the expansion header, is there anything o5e required access to that I've not brought out?


I finally got it to open.....I'll try to have a look.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 9:06 pm 
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mk e wrote:
abecedarian wrote:
Not sure it's necessary, but definitely helpful, would be a barometric pressure sensor.


That continues to perplex me every time I hear it. None of the major aftermarket ECUs use them in their standard setup, at least not that I know of.

There is a sort of-kind of way to add it to a motec, but all it does is correct the load %, meaning you tune for say lambda of .85 at full load or 100 kpa and 1.0 at light cruise of say 70kpa......but 70kpa could be full load at mountain top so you're still exactly right on you tuning, but maybe a bit lean for 100% power. The baro lets the ecu know that 70=100%.....or just use TPS load sensing with the map acting as baro and never think about the issue again ;)

Well, like I said, probably not necessary.

Not sure about your side of the world but over here I can take a trip from sea level to over 7000 feet (> 2100 meters) without stopping so relying on the MAP to do baro isn't convenient.

And what's this 100kPa thing you mention? ;) My motorcycle can hit 217kPa absolute, and I hope to go a bit more. It did have a barometric sensor but the factory ECU wasn't programmed to cope with anything above around 5000 foot elevation.

BTW, that other 'squirt has variations that support a sensor which can be installed on board for baro sensing.

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 10:13 pm 
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abecedarian wrote:

Not sure about your side of the world but over here I can take a trip from sea level to over 7000 feet (> 2100 meters) without stopping so relying on the MAP to do baro isn't convenient.


That is the part that continues to perplex me......The engine really doesn't much care what baro is, it cares what the MAP and it has that. Independent of MAP a baro change from 0ft to 7000ft causes about a 2% shift in mixture....which is why most ecus don't bother with it.


Quote:
And what's this 100kPa thing you mention? ;) My motorcycle can hit 217kPa absolute, and I hope to go a bit more. It did have a barometric sensor but the factory ECU wasn't programmed to cope with anything above around 5000 foot elevation.


Preventing the turbo from over reving is the one place baro has significant value. You can do about the same thing using TPS&MAP&Time in the programming, just not quite as neatly....but it works.

Or add a remote sensor but most aftermarket ECUs do not use both MAP and baro.


Quote:
BTW, that other 'squirt has variations that support a sensor which can be installed on board for baro sensing.


yes...because their control math is f'd-up ;)


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:02 pm 
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Well now I'm humbled. ;)
Good thing I didn't mention a humidity sensor. :lol:
Seriously though, both do influence fuel mixture and combustion efficiency to some degree.


Back to the schematic:
On page 3, where the sensors' input circuits are...
- the "Crankshaft and camshaft Inputs" frame has R11, 10K pull-up to 5vdc-analog, on the MAX9926 COUT1, and "Opto-VR out" wire branching off.
- the "Opto-Input (RPM basic)" frame has R22, 2.49K pull-up to 5vdc-adalog, on the "Opto-VR out" wire as well.
Are the two pull-ups on the "Opto-VR out" wire intended, or ...?

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:41 pm 
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The biggest thing and it's not uge is that the pins you picked for LSD1&2 are etpu capable so those outputs COULD do fuel or spark or whatever etpu output function, but etpu29, which could drive LSD1 is already on the header take-off so using the etpu to drive LSD1 makes header pin 22 a GPIO only

Thats all I got for you.

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:20 pm 
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Thanks Mark :)

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:34 am 
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abecedarian wrote:
On page 3, where the sensors' input circuits are...
Are the two pull-ups on the "Opto-VR out" wire intended, or ...?


Thanks for catching that, It's a cut and paste boo-boo

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:51 pm 
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First pass of routing and layout adjustments - I do love manufacturer support :)


Attachments:
nano cased f.JPG
nano cased f.JPG [ 70.19 KiB | Viewed 17622 times ]

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Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS
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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 1:20 pm 
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Looks great!


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 4:42 pm 
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I concur.

Do you have the harness connector pin out available?

I'd like to see how this would interface with my motorcycle's systems and figure out what external drivers / modules might need developed.

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:51 am 
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Draft pinout


Attachments:
File comment: Draft pinout
conn layout.jpg
conn layout.jpg [ 84.22 KiB | Viewed 17610 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 1:50 am 
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Additional on board circuits

LIN / K-Line
CAN channel B
Spare ADC
IGN3
IGN4

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:14 am 
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While waiting for the next revision I've been playing with some theoretical layouts in cad

Taking the original o5e Molex Cinch board and cleaning it up a bit to mount the module we get pic #1 below - plenty of clear space to go nuts with application specific hardware

Also I think it might be possible at some stage to dual case the module itself by some careful routing at the connector end giving
1. Deutsch 24 pin for the basic installs
2. Cinch ME 48 pin (minus 6 giving 42 active)
The cases are the same size and similar in cost
The Cinch has a higher pin count but the Deutsch is more robust


Attachments:
File comment: CINCH LE with Molex 112 pin baseboard and module
nano cinch le 112f.JPG
nano cinch le 112f.JPG [ 50.26 KiB | Viewed 17606 times ]
File comment: maybe?
nano cinch me 48f.JPG
nano cinch me 48f.JPG [ 66.71 KiB | Viewed 17606 times ]
nano cinch me 48e.JPG
nano cinch me 48e.JPG [ 49.14 KiB | Viewed 17606 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 11:25 am 
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My vision from day 1 was a modular HW package but i was never able to find a HW guy who could follow simple instructions and layout what I was ashing for. The O5e I/O board was never actually functional really....I think Jared got most of the circuits working sort of but the board needed 40+ jumpers, it was a mess.

At the end the plan was just use the 5634 dev board to plug on to an I/O much like what you've laid out with your module.....but that never really happend as the plug on board plugged on and hung off the side so you couldn't put it in a case.

question. did you add a header for the stuff that was on the 24 pin connector that now will need to go though the I/O board?

Then 48 pin is about the min for a decent ECU, the 60 pin LE is a better choice I think.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:23 pm 
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Yes, on the Cinch LE concept all 74 possible pins are brought down to the main board
24 main, 40 expansion, 4 power & 6 aux
I just didn't bother adding visible pins to the 3d model

The 24 pin Deutsch is all FrankenCIS needs, the 60 to 112 option in the LE case should be fairly flexible if someone were to make a board that takes the module as the core, and it's obviously not the only option.
The 48-6/24 hybrid is only a thought and not necessarily a good idea. It does bring to the party an alternative option for cases and connectors as well as a crimping system that does not require expensive special tooling. Deutsch beats it hands down for quality, but is more expensive and less generic.

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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:40 pm 
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reanimotion wrote:
The 48-6/24 hybrid is only a thought and not necessarily a good idea.


Personally I love it.

An option that gets you 48 pins gives you a real ECU that people would buy. 24 pins gives you your CIS conversion and maybe a very small cut of the bike/atv market....it's just so limited and requiring external stuff generally makes people unhappy from my experience, but certainly you know more than I do about your customers so take my thoughts for what they're worth.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:59 am 
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Given the history of Open5xxx et al, that's quite funny! :)

Ye of little faith, it's only been a little over 6 weeks.
Final layout of the board is close to completion (see below), we've had a few minor adjustments as we parallel develop the firmware.
Firmware is going well
- SPI to 33905 and 33810 operational and tested
- eTPU set 2 is about to be modified for additional specific application options
- FreeMASTER / TunerStudio Hybrid being looked into
- GPS/3G-Data/WiFi board redesign underway
We've also prototyped, field tested and signed off on the first production run of anodised K-Jet metering blocks mid last week.


Attachments:
File comment: current revised rats nest
nano layout.jpg
nano layout.jpg [ 195.18 KiB | Viewed 17366 times ]

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Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS
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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:49 am 
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reanimotion wrote:
Given the history of Open5xxx et al, that's quite funny! :)


LOL

It's looking good!

reanimotion wrote:
FreeMASTER / TunerStudio Hybrid being looked into


The tuner is always a problem. The tuner is the least important from a functional standpoint but it's all most customers see and is what they form their impressions of the whole project/product on. Tunerstudio is a BIG part of what changed MS from a cult to a product, it gives a nice, finished looking face to the product. Phil did a pretty good job on it considering the limits he was faced with on the MS side of things.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:12 pm 
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reanimotion wrote:
Given the history of Open5xxx et al, that's quite funny! :)

I was hoping at least a few people would get a chuckle from my comment. :D

Still looking forward to the final product.

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:57 am 
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Maybe an odd question to add at this phase...
... but ...
... what about low impedance injectors?

My motorcycle uses two 330cc/min, ~2 ohm impedance injectors, factory bone stock.


/me sees Mark cover his eyes, shaking his head, asking "why?"

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:33 am 
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Current draw would be too high for the MC33810 forcing it into self-protection mode.

Time for modern injectors :)

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Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:54 am 
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abecedarian wrote:


/me sees Mark cover his eyes, shaking his head, asking "why?"


You sees right :)


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:10 pm 
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mk e wrote:
abecedarian wrote:
/me sees Mark cover his eyes, shaking his head, asking "why?"


You sees right :)

Okay, that was just weird. :shock:


reanimotion wrote:
Current draw would be too high for the MC33810 forcing it into self-protection mode.

Time for modern injectors :)

Can you recommend injectors with sufficient flow and appropriate open/closing times to support a 500/650cc engine at 900-1000 RPM idle (two cylinders, by the way), and flow enough fuel at 10000 RPM to generate > 100HP?

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My O5E candidate: 1982 Honda CX500TC motorcycle.


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 Post subject: Re: NanoSkwert hardware
PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:54 pm 
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330-350cc should be fine, for more accurate estimations try the calculator https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/calcinjpulse.html

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Yes! mechanical/hydraulic constant flow injection can be managed by a modern EMS


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